Archive-Date: Mon, 01 Jul 1996 00:06:35 CST Sender: owner-mx-list@WKUVX1.WKU.EDU Date: Mon, 01 Jul 1996 00:06:20 CST From: Hunter Goatley Reply-To: MX-List@MadGoat.com To: mx-list@WKUVX1.WKU.EDU Message-ID: <009A4A69.9877C9D2.326@WKUVX1.WKU.EDU> Subject: MX-LIST Administrivia: Monthly Post Posting statistics for list MX-LIST during June 1996 Total number of posts: 46 Total number of posters: 21 Total number of subscribers: 296 Last modified: 28-SEP-1995 13:33 (Updated digest info) Welcome to MX-List@WKUVX1.WKU.EDU, an electronic mailing list established for the discussion of the Message Exchange mail software. This is a routine posting you will see from time to time on MX-List. MX-List postings are also available in a daily digest format. To subscribe to the digest, send the following command in the body of a mail message to MXserver@WKUVX1.WKU.EDU: SUBSCRIBE MX-List-Digest "Your real name here" The MX-List archives are maintained at ARCHIVES@WKUVX1.WKU.EDU. To get a copy of any month's postings, send an e-mail message with the body SEND MX-List.yyyy-mm to ARCHIVES@WKUVX1.WKU.EDU, where "yyyy" is the year and "mm" is the numeric representation of the month. For example, the message SENDME MX-List.1992-04 will send the archives for April 1992. MX itself is available via anonymous ftp from ftp.spc.edu in [.MX.MX041]. You can also get it via e-mail by sending the commands SEND MX and SEND FILESERV_TOOLS on separate lines in the body of a mail message to FILESERV@WKUVX1.WKU.EDU. To remove yourself from the mailing list, send the following command to MXserver@WKUVX1.WKU.EDU: SIGNOFF MX-List MXserver supports a few other commands for your convenience. The following commands can be handled automatically by the list processor: SIGNOFF MX-List - to remove yourself from the list REVIEW MX-List - to get a list of subscribers QUERY MX-List - to get the status of your entry on the list SET MX-List DIGEST - to switch to digest mode SET MX-List NODIGEST - to switch to non-digest mode SET MX-List NOMAIL - to remain on the list but not receive mail SET MX-List MAIL - to resume receiving mail from the list SET MX-List CONCEAL - to not report your address in a REVIEW SET MX-List NOCONCEAL - to report your address in a REVIEW SET MX-List REPRO - to receive posts you make to MX-List SET MX-List NOREPRO - to not receive posts you make to MX-List LIST - to get a list of mailing lists served by WKUVX1 HELP - to receive a help file By default, subscriptions are set to MAIL, REPRO, NOCONCEAL. If you have any questions, comments, or suggestions about MX-List, please contact the list owner at the address below. =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Hunter Goatley, Sr. OpenVMS Systems Programmer goathunter@LOKI.COM The LOKI Group, Inc. P.O. Box 9609 Bowling Green, KY 42102-9609 =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Mon, 01 Jul 1996 14:45:28 CST Sender: owner-mx-list@WKUVX1.WKU.EDU Date: Mon, 01 Jul 1996 12:45:47 PST From: Dave Oseto Reply-To: MX-List@MadGoat.com To: mx-list@madgoat.com CC: sysdave@CCVAX.CCS.CSUS.EDU Message-ID: <009A4AD3.B08FA5C0.131@CCVAX.CCS.CSUS.EDU> unsubscribe ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Mon, 01 Jul 1996 20:35:31 CST Sender: owner-mx-list@WKUVX1.WKU.EDU Date: Mon, 01 Jul 1996 19:35:03 MDT From: "Michael L. Hitch" Reply-To: MX-List@MadGoat.com To: MX-List@MadGoat.com CC: ichjsmt@earth.oscs.montana.edu Message-ID: <009A4B0C.DD5A1480.8@msu.oscs.montana.edu> Subject: RE: MX Documentation Hunter Goatley writes: > Mark Tarka writes: > > > >I had the MX docs, but on a particularly stressful day I had > >to delete them in order to get enough space in my account to > >clean-up my MAIL files/folders. > > > >Could someone please tell me how to get to those docs again > >(I promise to put the info on a 3X5 file card :-) > > > There are several ways: ... Mark can also get the docs right from MX_DOC: on the system he mailed from. The Bookreader, PostScript, and text documentation is installed there. Michael --- Michael L. Hitch osymh@msu.oscs.montana.edu Computer Consultant, Information Technology Center Montana State University, Bozeman, MT USA ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Tue, 02 Jul 1996 10:24:04 CST Sender: owner-mx-list@WKUVX1.WKU.EDU Date: Tue, 02 Jul 1996 09:58:25 CST From: "James T. Horn" Reply-To: MX-List@MadGoat.com To: MX-List@MadGoat.com Message-ID: <009A4B85.79CA7850.1680@SHSU.edu> Subject: RE: MX-LIST Digest V96 #97 >> >>>If you have MultiNet V3.5 Rev B installed, this problem is probably due to >>>a bug in NETLIB V2.0 which is aggravated by this version of MultiNet. >>>Upgrading NETLIB to V2.0J should take care of the problem. >> >>Where can one get netlib v2.0j? and does it matter which order things >>are installed MX 4.2 then netlib or netlib 2.0j before MX? >> >> >You should install MX V4.2 first, then NETLIB 2.0J, or NETLIB and then >>tell the MX installation not to install NETLIB. > >>Hunter I must ask then, I am running netlib v2.0j, pluse Mutinet 3.5, rev b, and I still get those not host message. I always thought it was because the host was not there. Could this not be the case?> James T. Horn Sam Houston State University < ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Tue, 02 Jul 1996 10:41:24 CST Sender: owner-mx-list@WKUVX1.WKU.EDU Date: Tue, 02 Jul 1996 10:41:05 CST From: Hunter Goatley Reply-To: MX-List@MadGoat.com To: MX-List@MadGoat.com Message-ID: <009A4B8B.6F4DDC2C.10@ALPHA.WKU.EDU> Subject: RE: MX-LIST Digest V96 #97 "James T. Horn" writes: > >I must ask then, I am running netlib v2.0j, pluse Mutinet 3.5, rev b, and I still >get those not host message. I always thought it was because the host was not >there. Could this not be the case?> > Yes, sometimes a cigar is just a cigar. ;-) Hunter ------ Hunter Goatley, Sr. OpenVMS Systems Programmer, The LOKI Group, Inc. http://www.wku.edu/www/madgoat/hunter.html ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Wed, 03 Jul 1996 04:22:50 CST Sender: owner-mx-list@WKUVX1.WKU.EDU Date: Wed, 03 Jul 1996 10:22:33 EDT From: Franz Schoenbauer Reply-To: MX-List@MadGoat.com To: MX-LIST@MADGOAT.COM CC: system@eimoni.tuwien.ac.at Message-ID: <009A4C52.02F9DE00.3@eimoni.tuwien.ac.at> Subject: Automatic address translation of user@node in vmsmail Using VMS 6.2, UCX 3.3 and MX 4.1, it seems that when the logical MAIL$PROTOCOL_SMTP is set to MX_MAILSHR, mail addresses of the form user@node.domain are treated as internet mail addresses and sent out ok, but omitting the domain, i.e. writing just user@node will attempt to send the message wich decnet (?), which will of course fail on a non-vms node. there is a patch to correct this only for vms versions before 6.2. Any solutions to this problem ? Who is actually causing this ? Thanks in advance, Franz Schoenbauer, Tech. Univ. Vienna, | system@eimoni.tuwien.ac.at Resselg. 3/188 A-1040, Vienna, Austria | +43(1)58801 ext. 4126 ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Wed, 03 Jul 1996 07:58:12 CST Sender: owner-mx-list@WKUVX1.WKU.EDU Date: Wed, 03 Jul 1996 07:57:58 CST From: Hunter Goatley Reply-To: MX-List@MadGoat.com To: MX-List@MadGoat.com CC: system@eimoni.tuwien.ac.at Message-ID: <009A4C3D.D05F0A1F.10@ALPHA.WKU.EDU> Subject: RE: Automatic address translation of user@node in vmsmail Franz Schoenbauer writes: > >Using VMS 6.2, UCX 3.3 and MX 4.1, it seems that when the logical >MAIL$PROTOCOL_SMTP is set to MX_MAILSHR, mail addresses of the form >user@node.domain are treated as internet mail addresses and sent out >ok, but omitting the domain, i.e. writing just user@node will attempt >to send the message wich decnet (?), which will of course fail on a >non-vms node. there is a patch to correct this only for vms versions before >6.2. > >Any solutions to this problem ? >Who is actually causing this ? VMS Mail is doing that. When they added support for "@" in addresses, they wrote it so that "user@node" is treated as a DECnet address. They changed this is VMS V7.0 so that you can override that behavior. Under V7.0, you can define the logical MAIL$INTERNET_MODE to be "SMTP", "DECNET", or "HYBRID" (which is the default behavior). Hunter ------ Hunter Goatley, Sr. OpenVMS Systems Programmer, The LOKI Group, Inc. http://www.wku.edu/www/madgoat/hunter.html ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Mon, 08 Jul 1996 16:51:43 CST Sender: owner-mx-list@WKU.EDU Date: Mon, 8 Jul 1996 14:51:01 -0700 From: DWING@TGV.COM (Dan Wing) Reply-To: MX-List@MadGoat.com To: chadwick@darwin.nmmnh-abq.MUS.nm.US CC: INFO-MULTINET@TGV.COM, MX-LIST@WKUVX1.WKU.Edu Message-ID: <960708145101.20201105@tgv.com> Subject: RE: MX 4.2/Multinet problems These questions should probably be sent to mx-list@wkuvx1.wku.edu (or posted to the vmsnet.mail.mx newsgroup). I'm CC'ing MX-List. >I am trying to get MX4.2 to function properly so I can do a good >evaluation of L-Soft's Listserv product and I am having some strange >problems. I have OpenVMS 6.2 on an AlphaServer 400 and Multinet 3.5. If >anyone has some ideas, let me know. Here are the symptoms: > >1. Mail sent internally using mx%user or mx%"user@domain" is delivered to >the Listserv software, no problem. > >2. Mail sent using normal decnet addressing or the smtp handler does not >get passed to Listserv. That's normal. You could use the undocumented VMSmail "SET TRANSPORT MX%" command to force all VMSmail to go through MX, but that has some side effects. >3. Outgoing mail using MX%"user@domain" gets delivered okay, except to >other VMS systems running Multinet. Then, it gets sent to who knows >where... A TCPDUMP would be helpful, or you could enable MX debugging with: $ DEFINE/SYSTEM/EXECUTIVE MX_SMTP_DEBUG TRUE and examining MX_SMTP_DIR for the log files. If you want to use TCPDUMP, use: $ MULTINET TCPDUMP/HEX/SNAP=1514 PORT SMTP AND HOST host Where "host" is the name or IP address of the host you're sending mail to. >4. Incoming mail for the listserv from outside systems does not get passed >to the listserv. L-Soft's documentation should indicate their recommended solution. >We are working on a limited internal basis right now. Would like to give >the Listserv product a good spin. Thanks, -Dan Wing dwing@tgv.com ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Tue, 09 Jul 1996 14:53:12 CST Sender: owner-mx-list@WKU.EDU From: goathunter@madgoat.com (Hunter Goatley) Subject: Re: send mail outside of domain Date: 9 Jul 1996 18:47:07 GMT Message-ID: <4ru9fb$bo3@news.wku.edu> Reply-To: MX-List@MadGoat.com To: MX-List@WKUVX1.WKU.EDU chadwick@darwin.nmmnh-abq.mus.nm.us (John Chadwick) writes: > >I just installed MX 4.2 on an AlphaServer 400 with VMS 6.2 and Multinet >3.5. This is in preparation to install an eval kit for L-Soft's Listserv >software. With MX installed I can send Internet mail okay unless I try to >use the MX handler, i.e., mx%"user@host.domain". The messages just pile up >in the queues. If I send e-mail to an address on the local domain it gets >delivered fine (i.e., mx%"user@darwin"). > >Also, the queue directories are not automatically deleting, they messages >just keep piling up although I have it set for auto purge. > Sounds like your Router or SMTP agents aren't doing their jobs. You might try enabling debugging and checking the log files for more info: $ define/sys/exec mx_router_debug true $ define/sys/exec mx_smtp_debug true Log files will be created in MX_ROUTER_DIR: and MX_SMTP_DIR:, respectively. Hunter ------ Hunter Goatley, Sr. OpenVMS Systems Programmer, The LOKI Group, Inc. http://www.wku.edu/www/madgoat/hunter.html ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Tue, 09 Jul 1996 14:53:35 CST Sender: owner-mx-list@WKU.EDU From: goathunter@madgoat.com (Hunter Goatley) Subject: Re: Which version? Date: 9 Jul 1996 18:53:53 GMT Message-ID: <4ru9s1$bo3@news.wku.edu> Reply-To: MX-List@MadGoat.com To: MX-List@WKUVX1.WKU.EDU welchb@woods.uml.edu (Brendan Welch, W1LPG) writes: > >Sorry if this has been asked before; can't find the FAQ. > I haven't had time to do the FAQ yet. >We have been using (apparently) V4.1. Last week we upgraded VMS from >V6.1 through V6.2 to V7.0, and now are having a lot of mail problems. >In particular, outgoing mail seems to timeout. > >Thus, does our VMS upgrade also call for upgrading MX? > If you're running on Alpha, then yes, you would need to re-install MX under VMS V7.0. Your problems could also be caused by NETLIB problems, if you're running MultiNet V3.5b. If that's the case, then you also need to install the current NETLIB, which is on ftp.wku.edu in [.MADGOAT] as NETLIB020.ZIP (NETLIB V2.0J). Hunter ------ Hunter Goatley, Sr. OpenVMS Systems Programmer, The LOKI Group, Inc. http://www.wku.edu/www/madgoat/hunter.html ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Tue, 09 Jul 1996 14:54:03 CST Sender: owner-mx-list@WKU.EDU From: goathunter@madgoat.com (Hunter Goatley) Subject: Re: SMTP_SERVER Process Dying Date: 9 Jul 1996 18:41:38 GMT Message-ID: <4ru952$bo3@news.wku.edu> Reply-To: MX-List@MadGoat.com To: MX-List@WKUVX1.WKU.EDU lebo@bscr.uga.edu (Richard Lebo) writes: > > I turned on the trace/debug option and the SMTP_SERVER process is >dying on mail that appears to be coming from a list server. In the debug >log file everything looks ok when the machines connect. Then there are >1100+ lines of addresses for the recipients of the list. Then the >SMTP_SERVER process dies without the message ever making it. > Is there some type of default threshold for addressees set in the >SMTP_SERVER process I could increase? Any ideas? > As you noticed, the problem is caused by a To: or CC: line that contains so many addresses that the header is longer than 65535 characters, which is the maximum size for a single string using VMS descriptors. One of the STR$ routines is signalling the error (String too long) and MX SMTP Server doesn't catch the signal, so the process exits. Nothing you can do about it at the moment, but this will be fixed in the next release of MX. Hunter ------ Hunter Goatley, Sr. OpenVMS Systems Programmer, The LOKI Group, Inc. http://www.wku.edu/www/madgoat/hunter.html ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Tue, 09 Jul 1996 14:54:19 CST Sender: owner-mx-list@WKU.EDU From: goathunter@madgoat.com (Hunter Goatley) Subject: Re: MX SMTP send failure status 294 Date: 9 Jul 1996 18:43:56 GMT Message-ID: <4ru99c$bo3@news.wku.edu> Reply-To: MX-List@MadGoat.com To: MX-List@WKUVX1.WKU.EDU wvc@interserv.com (Bill Valentine-Cooper) writes: >I'm using MX SMTP to get to an old Ultrix 4.3 DECstation. The DECstation >can send to MX fine now that I've fixed sendmail.cf, but MX can't send to >Ultrix due to an SMTP send failure with a status of 00000294. I'm not >sure where to begin with this. Suggestions would be appreciated. > 294 is: $ write sys$output f$message("%x294") %SYSTEM-F-REJECT, connect to network object rejected $ which means that the Ultrix system is rejecting connections on the SMTP port (25). You should see the same result if you do a TELNET/PORT=25. Hunter ------ Hunter Goatley, Sr. OpenVMS Systems Programmer, The LOKI Group, Inc. http://www.wku.edu/www/madgoat/hunter.html ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Tue, 09 Jul 1996 23:50:21 CST Sender: owner-mx-list@WKU.EDU Date: Tue, 09 Jul 1996 23:50:05 CST From: Hunter Goatley Reply-To: MX-List@MadGoat.com To: MX-List@MadGoat.com CC: JOHN.POWERS@BLACKWELL.CO.UK Message-ID: <009A5179.D0E72DB9.2@ALPHA.WKU.EDU> Subject: RE: Router goes phut,, This was posted almost a month ago, but I'm finally getting around to replying. john.powers@blackwell.co.uk writes: > >The symptoms are that the router disappears from the system. This seems >to occur at a random time, anything between 10 seconds and 15 hours of >successful run-time has been found between crashes. > >To try to get more information, I used a spare terminal and ran >MX_ROUTER on that terminal, with a photo log, to see if it told us >anything. This produced the following nugget of information.. > > >$ run mx_exe:mx_router >12-JUN-1996 09:43:59.72: SYSTEM (pid 2080B1D6) starting >%SYSTEM-F-ACCVIO, access violation, reason mask=00, virtual address=00000000, PC >=000855CC, PSL=0BC00000 >%TRACE-F-TRACEBACK, symbolic stack dump follows >module name routine name line rel PC abs PC > > 000855CC 000855CC > 00082B78 00082B78 > 0009638C 0009638C > 00096791 00096791 >PROCESS PROCESS 507 00000B3B 00004A0D >MX_ROUTER MX_ROUTER 44 000003D1 000029D1 Line 507 in [MX.ROUTER]PROCESS.B32 is a call to the site-implemented address rewriter routines. Sounds like you've got a bug in your address rewriter.... Hunter ------ Hunter Goatley, Sr. OpenVMS Systems Programmer, The LOKI Group, Inc. http://www.wku.edu/www/madgoat/hunter.html ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Wed, 10 Jul 1996 01:21:07 CST Sender: owner-mx-list@WKU.EDU Date: Tue, 09 Jul 1996 23:20:43 MST From: Ray Harwood -- Data Basix Reply-To: MX-List@MadGoat.com To: MX-List@MadGoat.com CC: rharwood@Basix.COM Message-ID: <009A5175.B728E538.32@Basix.COM> Subject: MX Router loops til killed I've got MX Router going into a tight processing loop. Running MX 4.1 VAX under VMS 6.1. (Please note: This is BEHIND A FIREWALL, so you can't rely on anything you see from the Internet to help me debug.) I'm using Louis Moore's CONTRIB'ed NICKNAME routine, to make this particular node the central mail processor. Folks outside the firewall would normally address EMail to JoeSchmuck@UMCAZ.EDU, and sometimes that person really is on this machine (Zeus). Sometimes it's not. Here's the PATH output: Domain-to-path mappings: Domain="[--internal-IP--]", Path=Local Domain="Zeus.UMCAZ.EDU", Path=Local Domain="UMCAZ.EDU", Path=Local Domain="Zeus", Path=Local Domain="*.UMCAZ.EDU", Path=SMTP ^--- sends non-Zeus internal EMail on its way just fine Domain="*", Path=SMTP, Route="umcazgw.umcaz.edu" ^--- sends external EMail on its way just fine, too Here's the Debug with MX_ROUTER_DEBUG... the output from "next hop" to "next hop" repeats until the MX Router process is STOP/ID'd (MCP SHUT doesn't work). (The original of this file was 1.5MB.) 9-JUL-1996 22:30:50.30 %PROCESS, Processing entry number 9 9-JUL-1996 22:30:50.33 %PROCESS, Status from READ_INFO was 00000001 9-JUL-1996 22:30:50.33 %PROCESS, Recipient #0: 9-JUL-1996 22:30:50.33 %REWRITE, Applying rewrite rule: <{user}@UMCAZ.EDU> => <{user}@Zeus.UMCAZ.EDU> to: 9-JUL-1996 22:30:50.34 %FINDPATH, Site-spec expand on Zeus.UMCAZ.EDU err=00000000 9-JUL-1996 22:30:50.34 %FINDPATH, domain name ZEUS.UMCAZ.EDU matched path pattern ZEUS.UMCAZ.EDU 9-JUL-1996 22:30:50.34 %PROCESS, Rewrote as - next hop Zeus.UMCAZ.EDU, path 1 9-JUL-1996 22:30:50.34 %FINDALIAS, Site-spec convert on JRH returned 9-JUL-1996 22:30:50.34 %REWRITE, No rewrite rules matched 9-JUL-1996 22:30:50.34 %FINDPATH, Site-spec expand on Zeus.UMCAZ.EDU err=00000000 9-JUL-1996 22:30:50.34 %FINDPATH, domain name ZEUS.UMCAZ.EDU matched path pattern ZEUS.UMCAZ.EDU 9-JUL-1996 22:30:50.34 %PROCESS, Rewrote as - next hop Zeus.UMCAZ.EDU, path 1 9-JUL-1996 22:30:50.34 %FINDALIAS, Site-spec convert on JRH returned 9-JUL-1996 22:30:50.35 %REWRITE, No rewrite rules matched 9-JUL-1996 22:30:50.35 %FINDPATH, Site-spec expand on Zeus.UMCAZ.EDU err=00000000 9-JUL-1996 22:30:50.35 %FINDPATH, domain name ZEUS.UMCAZ.EDU matched path pattern ZEUS.UMCAZ.EDU 9-JUL-1996 22:30:50.35 %PROCESS, Rewrote as - next hop Zeus.UMCAZ.EDU, path 1 Where can I insert a REWRITE or PATH that would not cause it to loop? Any help would be appreciated, and I'm open to suggestions on additional debugging necessary. Thanks, Ray ----- Ray Harwood | Data Basix | Internet Service Provider for Voice: (520)721-1988 | PO Box 18324 | Dialup, SLIP, & UUCP Services, FAX: (520)721-7240 | Tucson, AZ 85731 | And World Wide Web Pages -- RHarwood@Basix.COM | http://Basix.COM/ | Internet with a Personal Touch ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Wed, 10 Jul 1996 01:51:53 CST Sender: owner-mx-list@WKU.EDU Date: Wed, 10 Jul 1996 01:51:44 CST From: Hunter Goatley Reply-To: MX-List@MadGoat.com To: MX-List@MadGoat.com CC: RHARWOOD@BASIX.COM Message-ID: <009A518A.CFCAB331.5@ALPHA.WKU.EDU> Subject: RE: MX Router loops til killed Ray Harwood -- Data Basix writes: > >I've got MX Router going into a tight processing loop. Running MX 4.1 VAX >under VMS 6.1. (Please note: This is BEHIND A FIREWALL, so you can't >rely on anything you see from the Internet to help me debug.) > >I'm using Louis Moore's CONTRIB'ed NICKNAME routine, to make this particular >node the central mail processor. Folks outside the firewall would normally >address EMail to JoeSchmuck@UMCAZ.EDU, and sometimes that person really is on >this machine (Zeus). Sometimes it's not. Here's the PATH output: > I'm not that familiar with Louis's NICKNAME, but right off the bat, I'd recommend you stop using it and start using the ADDRESS_REWRITER routines provided as MX examples. I can vouch for the BLISS version; some people have had problems with the C version. > 9-JUL-1996 22:30:50.34 %FINDALIAS, Site-spec convert on JRH returned > [...] > 9-JUL-1996 22:30:50.34 %FINDALIAS, Site-spec convert on JRH returned There's the key---each time the address is processed, the NICKNAME routine is being called again. Each time it successfully changes the address, the new address is added to the tail of the recipient queue to be processed again. ADDRESS_REWRITER routines will do what you want and should avoid the looping. The NICKNAME stuff was designed to go from "X" to "Y", not from "X" to "X", which is how you appear to be using it. Hunter ------ Hunter Goatley, Sr. OpenVMS Systems Programmer, The LOKI Group, Inc. http://www.wku.edu/www/madgoat/hunter.html ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Wed, 10 Jul 1996 21:40:33 CST Sender: owner-mx-list@WKU.EDU Date: Wed, 10 Jul 96 15:22:25 EDT Message-ID: <009A51FC10435E60.4061B16A@giant.IntraNet.com> From: "G. Del Merritt" Reply-To: MX-List@MadGoat.com Subject: MX with UUCP - uucp agent hanging To: mx-list@lists.wku.edu I am having problems with the uucp agent hanging/wedging/becoming unresponsive while trying to process outbound mail. I'm using MX V4.2 VAX with DECUS UUCP 2.0, OpenVMS/VAX 6.1 and UCX 4.0. Since incoming mail keeps working, I don't always notice this until I happen to look at the queue (or some user comes to my office and says, "noone `outside' is getting my mail"), and I see something like this: MCP> status PID Node Process name Status Agent type -------- ------ --------------- ------------------ ------------ 406004F2 TITAN MX Router Idle Router agent 406004F3 TITAN MX Local Idle Local delivery agent 406004F8 TITAN MX MLF Idle Mailing list/file server 406004F4 TITAN MX SMTP Idle SMTP delivery agent 40600519 TITAN MX uucp Intfc Processing # 2 UUCP interface agent 406004F5 TITAN MX SMTP Server Idle SMTP server (over TCP/IP) 406004F1 TITAN MX FLQ Manager Idle MX FLQ manager 406004F7 TITAN MX LSV Intfc Idle Listserv interface agent I tried (without apparent affect) both: MCP> reset uucp MCP> shutdown uucp When I looked at the process, I saw: $ sh proc/id=40600519/cont Process MX uucp Intfc 14:48:42 State HIB Working set 656 Cur/base priority 4/4 Virtual pages 5432 Current PC 7FFEDF8A CPU time 000:00:01:51.64 Current PSL 03C00000 Direct I/O 37743 Current user SP 7FDEC110 Buffered I/O 47262 PID 40600519 Page faults 873 UIC [SYSTEM] Event flags 60000001 AE000000 $1$DIA21:[MX.][EXE]MX_UUCP.EXE;1 I ended up just: $ stop/id=40600519 $ @sys$startup:mx_startup uucp The queue is now draining, but this doesn't leave me with a warm fuzzy feeling. When I look at the entry that wasn't going before I stopped the uucp agent, I see: MCP> queue show 2 Entry# Status Size Source Agent Entry# Status Size ------ ------ ------- ------ ------- ------ ------ ------- 1 INPROG 32777 MAIL UUCP 2 READY 32777 Unfortunately, I didn't do a QUEUE SHOW before I kicked the agent, so I don't know exactly what it state it was in. I'm AssUMe'ing that that message wasn't lost, since I still see it READY. I don't know if the uucp agent will wedge/hang/HIB again when it gets back to it or not. This has been happening periodically for the last couple of months; unfortunately, the MX-master has departed, leaving me to keep watch over things. I quickly searched my local "archive" of vmsnet.mail.mx, and I see little discussion of the uucp agent. I'm looking for a solution or a hint to one. E.g., would having multiple instances of the uucp agent help, or is it likely that eventually they'll all wedge the same way? Malcolm Dunnett's post in March probably doesn't help me, since the agent is running, just not responsive... Thanks; if I need to provide more information, please let me know. -- Del Merritt, ** del@IntraNet.com IntraNet, Inc., One Gateway Center #700, Newton, MA 02158 Voice: 617-527-7020; FAX: 617-527-1761 Just say no to Clipper. You may not add me to a commercial mailing list or send me commercial advertising without my consent. (but if you want to buy my house, email me for details) ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Thu, 11 Jul 1996 09:08:34 CST Sender: owner-mx-list@WKU.EDU From: "Robert H. McClanahan" To: MX-List@MadGoat.com Date: Thu, 11 Jul 1996 09:06:43 -0500 Subject: Re: MX with UUCP - uucp agent hanging Reply-To: MX-List@MadGoat.com On 10 Jul 96 at 15:22, G. Del Merritt wrote: > MCP> status > PID Node Process name Status Agent type > -------- ------ --------------- ------------------ ------------ > 406004F2 TITAN MX Router Idle Router agent > 406004F3 TITAN MX Local Idle Local delivery agent > 406004F8 TITAN MX MLF Idle Mailing list/file server > 406004F4 TITAN MX SMTP Idle SMTP delivery agent > 40600519 TITAN MX uucp Intfc Processing # 2 UUCP interface agent > 406004F5 TITAN MX SMTP Server Idle SMTP server (over TCP/IP) > 406004F1 TITAN MX FLQ Manager Idle MX FLQ manager > 406004F7 TITAN MX LSV Intfc Idle Listserv interface agent [snip] > The queue is now draining, but this doesn't leave me with a warm fuzzy > feeling. When I look at the entry that wasn't going before I stopped the uucp > agent, I see: > MCP> queue show 2 > Entry# Status Size Source Agent Entry# Status Size > ------ ------ ------- ------ ------- ------ ------ ------- > 1 INPROG 32777 MAIL > UUCP 2 READY 32777 Is it always hanging on the same message? Perhaps there's a problem with that particular message. I seem to recall that UUCP exhibited some *very bad* behaviors if the TO address was greater than 255 characters in length. The least of these behaviors was that the message would get "stuck". Other interesting behaviors included sucking up all available disk space on the drive where the UUCP queues were. RHM +--+ Robert H. McClanahan, Mgr, Tech Info Systems, rmcclanahan@tis.aecc.com <[]>< Arkansas Electric Coop Corp, PO Box 194208, Little Rock, AR 72219-4208 USA "If I find in myself a desire which no experience in this world can satisy, the most probable explanation is that I was made for another world." C.S. Lewis ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Thu, 11 Jul 1996 12:21:01 CST Sender: owner-mx-list@WKU.EDU Date: Thu, 11 Jul 1996 18:20:14 BST From: john.powers@blackwell.co.uk Reply-To: MX-List@MadGoat.com To: MX-List@MadGoat.com CC: goathunter@LOKI.COM, john.powers@blackwell.co.uk Message-ID: <009A52DE.116E4E20.13@blackwell.co.uk> Subject: RE: Router goes phut,, From MX%"goathunter@LOKI.COM" .. >This was posted almost a month ago, but I'm finally getting around to >replying. > >john.powers@blackwell.co.uk writes: >> >>The symptoms are that the router disappears from the system. This seems >>to occur at a random time, anything between 10 seconds and 15 hours of >>successful run-time has been found between crashes. >> [...] > >Line 507 in [MX.ROUTER]PROCESS.B32 is a call to the site-implemented >address rewriter routines. Sounds like you've got a bug in your >address rewriter.... > Many thanks for the vital clues. Got the bug in the rewriter sorted now. Last month somebody was subscribed to a mailing list with a very long address, and the address rewriter got flummoxed by exceptionally long mail addresses. Now fixed - people can subscribe to whatever they want. Cheers. John ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- John Powers - Blackwell's, Oxford - - "fee issuing thirty mails" (anag.) john.powers@blackwell.co.uk (Internet) Blackwells Booksellers - Visit our PSI%234284400179::TJGP (PSImail) home page: http://www.blackwell.co.uk/ ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Thu, 11 Jul 1996 13:11:03 CST Sender: owner-mx-list@WKU.EDU Date: Thu, 11 Jul 1996 11:13:32 MST From: cdooling@west.cscwc.pima.edu Reply-To: MX-List@MadGoat.com To: mx-list@madgoat.com Message-ID: <009A52A2.75DC6A40.3@west.cscwc.pima.edu> Subject: error in MX trasnport DATE SENT: 11-JUL-1996 11:09:37 Two days ago I upgraded to MX 4.2 and Netlib 2.0j on the VMS 5.5-2, Multinet 3.4 system. It seems to work fine and then something breaks. Any advice or pointers to where I can find out how to solve this? Thanks................. Here is the full error message that received when trying to do a reply: > >%MAIL-E-ERRACTRNS, error activating transport MX >%LIB-E-ACTIMAGE, error activating image $2$DIA0:[MX.][EXE]MX_MAILSHRP.EXE >-SYSTEM-F-PROTINSTALL, protected images must be installed. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Cindy Dooling WEST::CDOOLING PimaCommunityCollege cdooling@west.cscwc.pima.edu 2202 W. Anklam voice: 520 884-6970 Tucson, Arizona 85709-0010 fax: 520 884-6033 http://west.cscwc.pima.edu/~cdooling Nothing but Net *** No FEAR, just a healthy respect *** ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Thu, 11 Jul 1996 15:39:53 CST Sender: owner-mx-list@WKU.EDU Date: Thu, 11 Jul 1996 15:39:34 CST From: Hunter Goatley Reply-To: MX-List@MadGoat.com To: MX-List@MadGoat.com CC: CDOOLING@WEST.CSCWC.PIMA.EDU Message-ID: <009A52C7.9FC72AA0.23@ALPHA.WKU.EDU> Subject: RE: error in MX trasnport cdooling@west.cscwc.pima.edu writes: > >DATE SENT: 11-JUL-1996 11:09:37 >Two days ago I upgraded to MX 4.2 and Netlib 2.0j on the VMS 5.5-2, >Multinet 3.4 system. It seems to work fine and then something breaks. >Any advice or pointers to where I can find out how to solve this? > >Thanks................. > >Here is the full error message that received when trying to do a reply: > >> >>%MAIL-E-ERRACTRNS, error activating transport MX >>%LIB-E-ACTIMAGE, error activating image $2$DIA0:[MX.][EXE]MX_MAILSHRP.EXE >>-SYSTEM-F-PROTINSTALL, protected images must be installed. > Sounds like you didn't do @SYS$STARTUP:MX_STARTUP, or else something is de-INSTALLing the images after it's been started. Hunter ------ Hunter Goatley, Sr. OpenVMS Systems Programmer, The LOKI Group, Inc. http://www.wku.edu/www/madgoat/hunter.html ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Thu, 11 Jul 1996 20:21:10 CST Sender: owner-mx-list@WKU.EDU Date: Thu, 11 Jul 96 20:55:58 EDT Message-ID: <009A52F3D33C0E60.60601184@giant.IntraNet.com> From: "G. Del Merritt" Reply-To: MX-List@MadGoat.com Subject: Re: MX with UUCP - uucp agent hanging To: MX-List@madgoat.com In-reply-to: "Robert H. McClanahan" message of 11 Jul 1996 09:06 >On 10 Jul 96 at 15:22, G. Del Merritt wrote: > >> MCP> status >> PID Node Process name Status Agent type >> -------- ------ --------------- ------------------ ------------ >> 40600519 TITAN MX uucp Intfc Processing # 2 UUCP interface agent >[snip] > >> The queue is now draining, but this doesn't leave me with a warm fuzzy >> feeling. When I look at the entry that wasn't going before I stopped the uucp >> agent, I see: >> MCP> queue show 2 >> Entry# Status Size Source Agent Entry# Status Size >> ------ ------ ------- ------ ------- ------ ------ ------- >> 1 INPROG 32777 MAIL >> UUCP 2 READY 32777 > >Is it always hanging on the same message? Perhaps there's a problem with that >particular message. I seem to recall that UUCP exhibited some *very bad* >behaviors if the TO address was greater than 255 characters in length. The >least of these behaviors was that the message would get "stuck". Other >interesting behaviors included sucking up all available disk space on the >drive where the UUCP queues were. This is an outbound message; it turns out that this individual had sent a Word document, full of much 8-bit/"binary" data, probably from his peecee. This is different from the standard uucp-can't-handle-input-lines-greater-than-255- characters problem, in that UUCP itself keeps working fine. It's the UUCP _agent_ supplied with MX that appears to have taken a powder. Further investigation showed files of the form: MX_UUCP_pidofagent.TMP being created in the UUCP_SPOOL directory. The problem may be related to the old uucp problem, but it's manifesting in a different way. Still looking for help/clues/solution(s)... -- Del Merritt, ** del@IntraNet.com IntraNet, Inc., One Gateway Center #700, Newton, MA 02158 Voice: 617-527-7020; FAX: 617-527-1761 Just say no to Clipper. You may not add me to a commercial mailing list or send me commercial advertising without my consent. (but if you want to buy my house, email me for details) ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Fri, 12 Jul 1996 08:20:53 CST Sender: owner-mx-list@WKU.EDU From: goathunter@madgoat.com (Hunter Goatley) Subject: Re: MX with UUCP - uucp agent hanging Date: 12 Jul 1996 12:51:14 GMT Message-ID: <4s5ho2$d5m@news.wku.edu> Reply-To: MX-List@MadGoat.com To: MX-List@WKUVX1.WKU.EDU "G. Del Merritt" writes: > >This is an outbound message; it turns out that this individual had sent a Word >document, full of much 8-bit/"binary" data, probably from his peecee. This is >different from the standard uucp-can't-handle-input-lines-greater-than-255- >characters problem, in that UUCP itself keeps working fine. It's the UUCP >_agent_ supplied with MX that appears to have taken a powder. My guess is still that the problem is actually in UUCP_MAILSHR, which MX UUCP calls. UUCP_MAILSHR had another problem where it would loop indefinitely when trying to process some binary files. From the MX release notes: 5.3 DECUS UUCP UUCP_MAILSHR Bug Binary files sent through MX to DECUS UUCP can cause the MX->uucp process to go into a compute-bound infinite loop. This is a bug in the DECUS UUCP UUCP_ MAILSHR's handling of the temporary file created by MX. Attempts to SHUTDOWN the MX uucp intfc will fail; you must use STOP/ID to kill the process, CANCEL the message, then restart the UUCP agent. According to the DECUS UUCP developers, this will be fixed in the next release of DECUS UUCP. Of course, there's been no "next release of DECUS UUCP" since that was written. >The problem may be related to the old uucp problem, but it's manifesting in a >different way. Still looking for help/clues/solution(s)... > The only solution is to CANCEL it. You can verify that that's where the problem is by enabling MX UUCP debugging and checking the log files in MX_UUCP_DIR: $ define/sys/exec mx_uucp_debug true Hunter ------ Hunter Goatley, Sr. OpenVMS Systems Programmer, The LOKI Group, Inc. http://www.wku.edu/www/madgoat/hunter.html ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Fri, 12 Jul 1996 15:29:13 CST Sender: owner-mx-list@WKU.EDU From: dwing@tgv.com ("Dan Wing") Subject: Re: Listserv error message Date: 12 Jul 1996 19:55:23 GMT Message-ID: <4s6ajb$dhd@cronkite.cisco.com> Reply-To: MX-List@MadGoat.com To: MX-List@WKUVX1.WKU.EDU In article , chadwick@darwin.nmmnh-abq.mus.nm.us (John Chadwick) writes: > Okay, I have been trying to track down the bug that has been keeping > VMSmail from getting passed to Listserv as well as SMTP mail. I have > turned on debugging on MX and have been unable to find a problem with MX > (as far as I know). Today, checking the Listserv Log files I found the > following. I am not sure if the bug is in MX or Listserv, but the exchange > should be HELO: > > 8 Jul 1996 10:57:10 -> EHLO darwin.nmmnh-abq.mus.nm.us > 8 Jul 1996 10:57:10 500 Syntax error, command unrecognized > 8 Jul 1996 10:57:10 -> EHLO support disabled. EHLO is a MIMEism, and an attempt by darwin.nmmnh-abq.mus.nm.us to determine if the SMTP server it is talking to supports the (for lack of a better description) 'EHLO extentions' to normal SMTP. MX doesn't support EHLO, and returns an error 500, causing darwin.nmmnh-abq.mus.nm.us's SMTP client to disable EHLO support for that host. -Dan Wing dwing@tgv.com / dwing@cisco.com cisco Systems, Inc. ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Sat, 13 Jul 1996 06:55:32 CST Sender: owner-mx-list@WKU.EDU Date: Sat, 13 Jul 1996 13:54:13 +0200 From: Richard Levitte - GNU on VMS hacker Reply-To: MX-List@MadGoat.com To: MX-List@MadGoat.com Message-ID: <009A544B.3CA3A515.35@e.kth.se> Subject: Re: Listserv error message >From: dwing@tgv.com ("Dan Wing") >EHLO is a MIMEism, and an attempt by darwin.nmmnh-abq.mus.nm.us to >determine if the SMTP server it is talking to supports the (for lack >of a better description) 'EHLO extentions' to normal SMTP. EHLO is not a MIMEism, it's extended SMTP. SMTP is about handling messages. MIME is about structuring and encoding the contents of a message. Pretty different things. -- +--------------------------------------------------------------------+ ! Richard Levitte, GNU on VMS hacker ! tel: +46-8-26 52 47 ! ! Spannvägen 38, I ! fax: none for the moment ! ! S-161 43 Bromma ! Internet: levitte@e.kth.se ! ! SWEDEN ! ! +--The GNU on VMS Project---+ You may not add me to a commercial mailing list or send me commercial advertising without my consent! See http://www.e.kth.se/~levitte/anti.html for further reference. ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Mon, 15 Jul 1996 12:54:28 CST Sender: owner-mx-list@WKU.EDU From: goathunter@madgoat.com (Hunter Goatley) Subject: Re: Help with installation Date: 15 Jul 1996 17:14:25 GMT Message-ID: <4sdu9h$svg@news.wku.edu> Reply-To: MX-List@MadGoat.com To: MX-List@WKUVX1.WKU.EDU In article <31EA7379.7026@star.zko.dec.com>, Joshua Cope writes: > >MAIL> send >To: mx%cope@star.zko.dec.com >%MAIL-E-ERRACTRNS, error activating transport SMTP >%LIB-E-ACTIMAGE, error activating image >LABRI$DKA100:[SYS0.SYSCOMMON.][SYSLIB]SMTP_MAILSHR.EXE; >-RMS-E-FNF, file not found > >The same error occurs if I simply try mailing to >cope@star.zko.dec.com. The file SMTP_MAILSHR.EXE does not >exist anywhere on my system. It's not supposed to, with MX. In the first example, you're missing quotes around the address: To: mx%"cope@star.zko.dec.com" By default, VMS Mail will try to pass addresses with "@" as if they were typed with SMTP%. Under VMS V7.0, you should define MAIL$INTERNET_TRANSPORT to be "MX": $ DEFINE/SYS/EXEC MAIL$INTERNET_TRANSPORT MX That'll solve the problem of MAIL looking for SMTP_MAILSHR. Hunter ------ Hunter Goatley, Sr. OpenVMS Systems Programmer, The LOKI Group, Inc. http://www.wku.edu/www/madgoat/hunter.html ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Mon, 15 Jul 1996 13:04:08 CST Sender: owner-mx-list@WKU.EDU From: goathunter@madgoat.com (Hunter Goatley) Subject: Re: A basic question Date: 15 Jul 1996 17:16:49 GMT Message-ID: <4sdue1$svg@news.wku.edu> Reply-To: MX-List@MadGoat.com To: MX-List@WKUVX1.WKU.EDU chadwick@darwin.nmmnh-abq.mus.nm.us (John Chadwick) writes: > >I want to go back to step one, I have MX running on my system and it is >working well. I understand that there is a simple mail distribution >feature, but I have not been able to find it. I would like to try to >implement the "listserv" feature of mx and get that going for some small >internal projects. > You need to install the "MX Mailing List/File Server" option when you're installing MX. If you didn't install that, re-do the VMSINSTAL session and select that option from the component list. Once that's done, you can use commands in MCP to create lists, etc. For more information, please consult the MX manual, "Message Exchange Mailing List/File Server Guide." Hunter ------ Hunter Goatley, Sr. OpenVMS Systems Programmer, The LOKI Group, Inc. http://www.wku.edu/www/madgoat/hunter.html ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Tue, 16 Jul 1996 01:52:47 CST Sender: owner-mx-list@WKU.EDU From: goathunter@madgoat.com (Hunter Goatley) Subject: Re: new mx problems Date: 16 Jul 1996 06:12:21 GMT Message-ID: <4sfbs5$gn5@news.wku.edu> Reply-To: MX-List@MadGoat.com To: MX-List@WKUVX1.WKU.EDU chadwick@darwin.nmmnh-abq.mus.nm.us (John Chadwick) writes: > >I did a reinstall of MX4.2 and now I have messages stacking up in my mail queue: > [...] >As you can see, the "@" is getting left off some how. > >Uh?-> show log mx_vmsmail_localhost > "MX_VMSMAIL_LOCALHOST" = "DARWIN" (LNM$SYSTEM_TABLE) This should be defined as "@darwin.nmmnh-abq.mus.nm.us". >Also, incoming mail for a list I set up using MX, nmmnh-l, gets bounced >back by Multinet's SMTP program: > >Bad address -- >Error -- No such local user > You need to be running MX's SMTP Server for this to work, and be sure you MCP RESET ROUTER,MLF after you add or change a mailing list. Hunter ------ Hunter Goatley, Sr. OpenVMS Systems Programmer, The LOKI Group, Inc. http://www.wku.edu/www/madgoat/hunter.html ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Tue, 16 Jul 1996 07:09:03 CST Sender: owner-mx-list@WKU.EDU Return-Path: Message-ID: <199607161203.IAA18256@news.interpath.net> From: "Rich Hill" To: MX-List@MadGoat.com Date: Tue, 16 Jul 1996 07:59:29 -0400 Subject: Re: MX with UUCP - uucp agent hanging Reply-To: MX-List@MadGoat.com > Date: 12 Jul 1996 12:51:14 GMT > From: goathunter@madgoat.com (Hunter Goatley) > Subject: Re: MX with UUCP - uucp agent hanging > Message-ID: <4s5ho2$d5m@news.wku.edu> > > "G. Del Merritt" writes: > > > >This is an outbound message; it turns out that this individual had sent a Word > >document, full of much 8-bit/"binary" data, probably from his peecee. This is > >different from the standard uucp-can't-handle-input-lines-greater-than-255- > >characters problem, in that UUCP itself keeps working fine. It's the UUCP > >_agent_ supplied with MX that appears to have taken a powder. > > My guess is still that the problem is actually in UUCP_MAILSHR, which MX > UUCP calls. UUCP_MAILSHR had another problem where it would loop indefinitely > when trying to process some binary files. > [snip] > >The problem may be related to the old uucp problem, but it's manifesting in a > >different way. Still looking for help/clues/solution(s)... > > > The only solution is to CANCEL it. I have this situation occur from time to time here. The problem is with UUCP_MAILSHR. Also note that these bugs in UUCP_MAILSHR (long lines and binary data) will also eat up all available disk space on the device that contains your UUCP directories. You will have to do an $ANALYZE/DISK/REPAIR on that device, and then delete the file(s) MAIL.TXT in the [SYSLOST] directory. Rich Hill -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Rich Hill S I M Rich.Hill@sim.org Systems Engineer b y EasyLink: 62923838 SIM USA, Inc. P r a y e r Phone: 1-704-587-1462 Charlotte, NC since 1893 FAX: 1-704-587-1518 -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [SC] Smiley captioned for the humor impaired. ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Tue, 16 Jul 1996 09:04:57 CST Sender: owner-mx-list@WKU.EDU Date: Tue, 16 Jul 1996 8:03:40 -0600 (MDT) From: John Chadwick Reply-To: MX-List@MadGoat.com To: MX-List@MadGoat.com CC: CHADWICK@darwin.nmmnh-abq.mus.nm.us Message-ID: <960716080340.164b@darwin.nmmnh-abq.mus.nm.us> Subject: Re: new mx problems Hunter, Thank you for all your help so far. I have set up a test list. I have another question. I can send mail to the list internally (on our system) using: mx%nmmnh-l or to the file server: mx%nmmnh-l-request or mx%mxserver The addressing is not being picked up by decnet (i.e. nmmnh-l-request does not work). Also, mail from outside the domain gets bounced back by Multinet's SMTP postmaster. The question is, do I have to make MX the default mail processing program (rather than Multinet's SMTP). If so, this is a new area for me, what is the logical (I am running OpenVMS 6.2 on an Alpha). I saw your posting about how to set the Internet mail transport on system 7. --john chadwick@darwin.nmmnh-abq.mus.nm.us ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Tue, 16 Jul 1996 10:12:46 CST Sender: owner-mx-list@WKU.EDU Date: Tue, 16 Jul 1996 10:12:15 CST From: Hunter Goatley Reply-To: MX-List@MadGoat.com To: MX-List@MadGoat.com CC: CHADWICK@darwin.nmmnh-abq.mus.nm.us Message-ID: <009A5687.BA0AAC0C.11@ALPHA.WKU.EDU> Subject: Re: new mx problems John Chadwick writes: > >work). Also, mail from outside the domain gets bounced back by Multinet's SMTP >postmaster. > >The question is, do I have to make MX the default mail processing program >(rather than Multinet's SMTP). If so, this is a new area for me, what is the >logical (I am running OpenVMS 6.2 on an Alpha). I saw your posting about how to >set the Internet mail transport on system 7. > Yes, you must use MX's SMTP server and disable MultiNet's. That, too, is one of the options when you install MX. For more info, please see the MX installation and management guides. Hunter ------ Hunter Goatley, Sr. OpenVMS Systems Programmer, The LOKI Group, Inc. http://www.wku.edu/www/madgoat/hunter.html ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Tue, 16 Jul 1996 18:25:59 CST Sender: owner-mx-list@WKU.EDU Date: Tue, 16 Jul 1996 19:22:18 EDT From: "G. Del Merritt" Reply-To: MX-List@MadGoat.com To: MX-List@madgoat.com Message-ID: <009A56D4.912B27C5.3@intranet.com> Subject: Re: MX-LIST Digest V96 #104 In-reply-to: "rich.hill@sim.orG"'s message of 16-JUL-1996 18:23:42.90 >> From: goathunter@madgoat.com (Hunter Goatley) >> Date: 12 Jul 1996 12:51:14 GMT >> >> My guess is still that the problem is actually in UUCP_MAILSHR, which MX >> UUCP calls. UUCP_MAILSHR had another problem where it would loop indefinitely >> when trying to process some binary files. >> [snip] >> >The problem may be related to the old uucp problem, but it's manifesting in a >> >different way. Still looking for help/clues/solution(s)... >> > >> The only solution is to CANCEL it. > >I have this situation occur from time to time here. The problem is with >UUCP_MAILSHR. Also note that these bugs in UUCP_MAILSHR (long lines and >binary data) will also eat up all available disk space on the device that >contains your UUCP directories. You will have to do an $ANALYZE/DISK/REPAIR >on that device, and then delete the file(s) MAIL.TXT in the [SYSLOST] >directory. I was too lame to have read the caveat in the MX doc's; since Murphy never strikes once, I got hit both by the UUCP_MAILSHR bug and by the UUCP_DATA:SEQUENCE.NUMBER bug. The unfortunate result was lost mail, since the freshly "unclogged" queue drained into uucp which in turn that didn't create uniquely named files in the spool directory. urk. I've added the following to my UUCP_BIN:UUCLEAN.COM, just before the section that checks free space on the uucp disk: $! -------------------- $! Check sequence.number; if it's getting close to the magic number of 32767, $! delete it and send mail. $ $ open/read/share thefile uucp_data:sequence.number/error=SeqNotNow $SeqAgain: $ read/end_of_file=SeqDone thefile record $ goto SeqAgain $SeqDone: $ close thefile $ record = f$cvui(0, 16, record) $ say "Sequence number was ''record'" $ if record .ge. 31000 $ then $ delete uucp_data:sequence.number;* $ mail/subject="reset UUCP_DATA:SEQUENCE.NUMBER; was at ''record'" - NL: uucp_postmaster $ endif $SeqNotNow: $! etc... I figure that my site won't get 1700+ transfers in just an hour (for that matter, we don't usually get that many in a day), so this should be pretty safe. I considered only doing it on a "new_day", but we'll see how this works. This doesn't fix the UUCP_MAILSHR bug, of course, but at least I think I've plugged the problem of losing mail (again). Thanks for the feedback. Sorry for the uunoise. -- Del Merritt, ** del@IntraNet.com IntraNet, Inc., One Gateway Center #700, Newton, MA 02158 Voice: 617-527-7020; FAX: 617-527-1761 Just say no to Clipper. You may not add me to a commercial mailing list or send me commercial advertising without my consent. (but if you want to buy my house, email me for details) ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Wed, 17 Jul 1996 03:11:49 CST Sender: owner-mx-list@WKU.EDU Date: Wed, 17 Jul 1996 10:00:24 MET-1MET DST From: Franz Schoenbauer Reply-To: MX-List@MadGoat.com To: MX-LIST@MADGOAT.COM CC: system@eimoni.tuwien.ac.at Message-ID: <009A574F.3CB886C0.5@eimoni.tuwien.ac.at> Subject: Changing vmsmails user@node behaviour > Automatic address translation of user@node in vmsmail >>Thanks for the hint. I installed vms 7.0 and now have >> "MAIL$INTERNET_MODE" = "SMTP" >> "MAIL$PROTOCOL_SMTP" = "MX_MAILSHR" And it does work, except for mail to the local node (Thanks again Hunter). So i guess vmsmail treats this as a special case. If anybody has the VMS source listings for 7.0 i'd be glad if they could mail me mail.exe and mailshr.exe, then i could devise a patch that will treast user@node on the local machine as nonlocal an send it thru MX. (mails to local mailing lists list@localnode will not work and provoke the error '%MAIL-E-NOSUCHUSR, no such user LIST') Thank you in advance. Franz Schoenbauer, Tech. Univ. Vienna, | system@eimoni.tuwien.ac.at Resselg. 3/188 A-1040, Vienna, Austria | +43(1)58801 ext. 4126 ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Wed, 17 Jul 1996 14:55:52 CST Sender: owner-mx-list@WKU.EDU From: goathunter@madgoat.com (Hunter Goatley) Subject: Re: almost there... Date: 17 Jul 1996 18:50:44 GMT Message-ID: <4sjcm4$6b3@news.wku.edu> Reply-To: MX-List@MadGoat.com To: MX-List@WKUVX1.WKU.EDU In article , chadwick@darwin.nmmnh-abq.mus.nm.us (John Chadwick) writes: > >I am sure I am overlooking something very basic, but I do need to get MX >to function as the default SMTP agent for all incoming and outgoing mail, >including DECNET mail. Everything seems to work fine if I use the mx% >syntax, both for local and outgoing mail. > Do an MCP STATUS and make sure you have an MX SMTP Server process running. My guess is that you don't. If you installed the SMTP support, re-executing @SYS$STARTUP:MX_STARTUP.COM ought to restart the MX SMTP Server. If all you did was a RESET after disabling the Multinet server, then the MX server was never started, because it conflicted with the MultiNet server previously. Make sense? Hunter ------ Hunter Goatley, Sr. OpenVMS Systems Programmer, The LOKI Group, Inc. http://www.wku.edu/www/madgoat/hunter.html ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Wed, 17 Jul 1996 22:11:53 CST Sender: owner-mx-list@WKU.EDU Date: Wed, 17 Jul 1996 22:09:26 CST From: J Kmoch Reply-To: MX-List@MadGoat.com To: MX-LIST@MADGOAT.COM CC: kmoch@whscdp.whs.edu Message-ID: <009A57B5.15022440.21@whscdp.whs.edu> Subject: support for a moderated listserv? Does the MX listserv capability allow for a list to be moderated not only for subscriptions but also for messages - that is, can all messages be made to go to the moderator who then review them before actually posting them? If this is in the documentated, perhaps someone could point me to the right place. Thanks Joe -- Joe Kmoch Washington High School kmoch@whscdp.whs.edu 2525 N. Sherman Blvd (414) 449-2765 (office) Milwaukee, WI 53210 (414) 444-9250 (fax) (414) 444-9760 (gen school phone) ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Thu, 18 Jul 1996 09:34:00 CST Sender: owner-mx-list@WKU.EDU Date: Thu, 18 Jul 1996 09:53:21 EDT From: "Brian Tillman, x8425" Reply-To: MX-List@MadGoat.com To: MX-List@MadGoat.com CC: kmoch@whscdp.whs.edu Message-ID: <009A5817.6ADE80E0.10@swdev.si.com> Subject: RE: support for a moderated listserv? Joe Kmoch (kmoch@whscdp.whs.edu) wrote: >Does the MX listserv capability allow for a list to be moderated not only for >subscriptions but also for messages - that is, can all messages be made to go >to the moderator who then review them before actually posting them? See the archives. A method for this has already been described there. -----------------------------+-------------------------------- Brian Tillman | Internet: tillman_brian@si.com Smiths Industries, Inc. | tillman@swdev.si.com 4141 Eastern Ave., MS239 | Hey, I said this stuff myself. Grand Rapids, MI 49518-8727 | My company has no part in it. -----------------------------+-------------------------------- ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Thu, 18 Jul 1996 17:13:41 CST Sender: owner-mx-list@WKU.EDU Message-ID: Subject: Problem sending mails (MX4.2) Please help... To: mx-list-digest@wkuvx1.wku.edu Date: Thu, 18 Jul 1996 19:32:27 +0200 (MET DST) From: "Andreas W Wylach" Reply-To: MX-List@MadGoat.com Content-Type: text Hi everybody, I got problems with MX4.2 running on OpenVMS/VAX 6.1 . I don't know what I changed on the system, that these mail probles occur since the last reboot of our system. We got UCX version 3.1 running, I hope soon to be updated to 4.0 (We are students, that's the reason why we can't update system products often, we got to pay it with 'pocket money'. It is possible, to receive mail, but unpossible to send any mail. The following log is says all. I don't know what to do to get everything running again. I guess, netlib or UCX is the error factor with this problem. Sending local mail with MX is no problem. Making telnet/port=25 to our IFWB mail server (and name server) is no problem, the server is answerinf to the VAX, mx should'nt hae problems with it. Here the SMTP log: 17-JUL-1996 17:31:13.42 Processing queue entry number 2 on node VAX1 17-JUL-1996 17:31:13.69 Recipient: , route=ifwb.wupper.de 17-JUL-1996 17:31:13.69 SMTP_SEND: looking up host name ifwb.wupper.de 17-JUL-1996 17:31:13.75 SMTP_SEND: DNS_MXLOOK status is 00000001 17-JUL-1996 17:31:14.30 SMTP_SEND: Failed, sts=00000870 17-JUL-1996 17:31:14.42 SMTP_SEND: Failed, sts=00000870 17-JUL-1996 17:31:14.55 SMTP_SEND: Failed, sts=00000870 17-JUL-1996 17:31:14.55 SMTP_SEND: looking up host name IFWB.WUPPER.DE 17-JUL-1996 17:31:14.61 SMTP_SEND: DNS_MXLOOK status is 00000001 17-JUL-1996 17:31:15.13 SMTP_SEND: Failed, sts=00000870 17-JUL-1996 17:31:15.26 SMTP_SEND: Failed, sts=00000870 17-JUL-1996 17:31:15.38 SMTP_SEND: Failed, sts=00000870 17-JUL-1996 17:31:15.38 SMTP send failed, sts=0C278024, sts2=00000870 17-JUL-1996 17:31:15.38 Recipient status=0C278024 for 17-JUL-1996 17:31:16.68 Entry now completely processed, no retries needed. 17-JUL-1996 17:31:16.87 *** End of processing pass *** Here the postmaster mail that I received: This mail confuses me a bit, cause out of the log file I see, that mx was able to get the IFWB host (with success 1). In the postmaster message it says NO SUCH HOST. From: MX%"Postmaster@vax1.wupper.de" To: MX%"aw@vax1.wupper.de" CC: Subj: SMTP delivery error Return-Path: <> Date: Wed, 17 Jul 1996 17:31:15 MET-1MET DST From: SMTP delivery agent To: Subject: SMTP delivery error X-Report-Type: Nondelivery; boundary="> Error description:" Note: this message was generated automatically. An error was detected while processing the enclosed message. A list of the affected recipients follows. This list is in a special format that allows software like LISTSERV to automatically take action on incorrect addresses; you can safely ignore the numeric codes. --> Error description: Error-For: aw@ifwb.wupper.de Error-Code: 2 Error-Text: %MX-F-NOHOST, no such host -Retry count exceeded -(Via IFWB.WUPPER.DE) Error-End: 1 error detected ------------------------------ Rejected message ------------------------------ Received: by vax1.wupper.de (MX V4.2 VAX) id 1; Wed, 17 Jul 1996 09:24:18 MET-1MET DST Date: Wed, 17 Jul 1996 09:24:16 MET-1MET DST From: "Andreas W. Wylach" To: aw@ifwb.wupper.de Message-ID: <009A574A.30AD4820.1@vax1.wupper.de> Subject: test test on the 10-JUL-1996 #1 see ya, Andreasw Here the domain-to-path mappings: (funny but it works) Domain="[194.245.39.132]", path=Local Domain="VAX1.WUPPER.DE", path=Local Domain="IFWB.WUPPER.DE", path=SMTP Domain="VAX1", path=Local Domain="*", path=SMTP, route="IFWB.WUPPER.DE" Even MGFTP listener makes problems since the last system reboot. Transfering files from/to our VAX is veeeerry slow. The FTP prompt is *NOT* returning, after the file is transfered. Anybody please could help me! If you need more info on this probem, please let me know. Thanks for any help!! see ya, Andreasw -- IfwBOnline Wuppertal, Maerkische Str. 28, D-42281 Wuppertal, F.R.Germany Andreas W. Wylach, | AW@IFWB.WUPPER.DE AW@VAX1.wupper.de | AW@WNVAX.wupper.de | Local DecNet: VAX1::AW Information system from students for students, WupperNet -- This is comp.os.vms, not alt.read.my.mind (Carl J. Lydick) ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Fri, 19 Jul 1996 16:02:38 CST Sender: owner-mx-list@WKU.EDU Date: Fri, 19 Jul 1996 16:01:19 CST6CDT5,M4.1.0,M10.5.0 From: "Dave Harrold, CAM Operations, Ext. 25639" Reply-To: MX-List@MadGoat.com To: MX-List@MadGoat.com Message-ID: <009A5913.FCDFA792.22@campv3.mfg.mke.ab.com> Subject: Put a trailer on every mail message through a mailing list. Hi, I am setting up a mailing list on an alpha using MX V4.2. I would like to put a trailer on every mail message sent out. It would have something like how to unsubscribe, where the ftp site was, etc. Is there a way to do that? I'm guessing I'll have to use the site interface to do it. Yes? Anybody tried to do this? Any help would be greatly appreciated. Thanks, Dave Harrold ........................................................................ David Harrold E-Mail: harrold@mfg.mke.ab.com CAM Systems Analyst Phone: (414) 382-5639 Allen-Bradley Company 1201 S. Second Street Milwaukee, WI 53204 ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Mon, 22 Jul 1996 10:38:15 CST Sender: owner-mx-list@WKU.EDU Message-ID: <1.5.4.16.19960722152816.3ceff360@agate.actfs.co.uk> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Mon, 22 Jul 1996 16:28:16 +0100 To: mx-list@wkuvx1.wku.edu From: John Rourke Reply-To: MX-List@MadGoat.com Subject: MX reports ?protocol eror Hi, I am having some trouble sending mail to a particular host. MX reports ?protocol error. Enabling debug and checking the logs shows SMTP_SEND: Connected SMTP_SEND: Rcvd: 220-hostname SMTP server process SMTP_SEND: Rcvd: SMTP send failed, sts=0C27804A, sts2=0C278042 If I telnet to port 25 of the host I receive 4 introductory messages starting 220 220-hostname SMTP server process 220-ElectricMail-MESSAGE-2.0-GAMMA Ready at date 220-Problems to ... 220 ESMTP spoken here Is MX objecting to the multiple messages? Can I do anything about it? John Rourke ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Mon, 22 Jul 1996 17:22:27 CST Sender: owner-mx-list@WKU.EDU From: dwing@tgv.com ("Dan Wing") Subject: Re: MX reports ?protocol eror Date: 22 Jul 1996 22:11:48 GMT Message-ID: <4t0ub4$nlt@cronkite.cisco.com> Reply-To: MX-List@MadGoat.com To: MX-List@WKUVX1.WKU.EDU In article <1.5.4.16.19960722152816.3ceff360@agate.actfs.co.uk>, John Rourke writes: > I am having some trouble sending mail to a particular host. > > MX reports ?protocol error. > > Enabling debug and checking the logs shows > > > SMTP_SEND: Connected > SMTP_SEND: Rcvd: 220-hostname SMTP server process > SMTP_SEND: Rcvd: > SMTP send failed, sts=0C27804A, sts2=0C278042 > > > If I telnet to port 25 of the host I receive 4 introductory messages > starting 220 > > 220-hostname SMTP server process > 220-ElectricMail-MESSAGE-2.0-GAMMA Ready at date > 220-Problems to ... > 220 ESMTP spoken here > > > Is MX objecting to the multiple messages? > > Can I do anything about it? I know MX can communicate to a host with multiple Welcome lines -- tgv.com has them, and MX mailers can communicate to it. MX might be having a problem if the 220 message is terminated by only a LF instead of CR+LF. -Dan Wing dwing@tgv.com / dwing@cisco.com cisco Systems, Inc. ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Mon, 22 Jul 1996 20:33:35 CST Sender: owner-mx-list@WKU.EDU Date: Mon, 22 Jul 1996 20:32:20 CST6CDT5,M4.1.0,M10.5.0 From: "Dave Harrold, CAM Operations, Ext. 25639" Reply-To: MX-List@MadGoat.com To: MX-List@MadGoat.com Message-ID: <009A5B95.589E236E.23@campv3.mfg.mke.ab.com> Subject: MX-List Archive and Digests Hi Everybody, Two Questions: 1.) Where is the archive for the MX-List? I resubscribed to the list lately and want to review some of the posts about digests, etc. I tried the places listed in the list welcome message, but the archives are non-existant in the places listed. 2.) I am trying to set up a list with a digest running MX V4.2. I think I have it setup right, but I seem to have a mail loop setup. I.e., the digest is sent out, but the just sent out digest is added to the next chunk to be processed for the digest. What am I doing wrong? Here is the details: MCP> show list alphant Mailing lists: Name: AlphaNT Owner: "harrold@KLUDGE.MFG.MKE.AB.COM" "harrold@CAMPV3.MFG.MKE.AB.COM" Reply-to: List, NOSender Archive: USER1:[ALPHANT.ARCHIVE] Add message: USER1:[ALPHANT]ALPHANT_ADD.TXT Remove message: USER1:[ALPHANT]ALPHANT_REMOVE.TXT Description: Windows NT on Alpha Discussion List Errors-to: Harrold@mfg.mke.ab.com Return address: AlphaNT@Kludge.mfg.mke.ab.com Strip header: Received, Other Private list: No Case sensitive: No Digest support: Yes Protection: (SYSTEM:RWED,OWNER:RWED,GROUP:RWED,WORLD:WE) MCP> show rewrite Address-rewriting rules: Rewrite "<{u}@DIGEST.SITE>" => "<{u}@DIGEST.SITE>" MCP> review alphant (NOCASE) AlphaNT@DIGEST.SITE (NOCASE) Harrold@MFG.MKE.AB.COM (NOCASE,DIGEST) MCP> Thanks, Dave Harrold ........................................................................ David Harrold E-Mail: harrold@mfg.mke.ab.com CAM Systems Analyst Phone: (414) 382-5639 Allen-Bradley Company 1201 S. Second Street Milwaukee, WI 53204 ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Tue, 23 Jul 1996 08:57:28 CST Sender: owner-mx-list@WKU.EDU Message-ID: <1.5.4.16.19960723134858.5b8f2898@agate.actfs.co.uk> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Tue, 23 Jul 1996 14:48:58 +0100 To: mx-list@wkuvx1.wku.edu From: John Rourke Reply-To: MX-List@MadGoat.com Subject: Re: MX reports ?protocol eror If the '220' messages are terminated by LF rather than CR+LF can anything be done about it (presumably by the remote end)? At 15:12 22/07/96 -0700, you wrote: >In article <1.5.4.16.19960722152816.3ceff360@agate.actfs.co.uk>, John Rourke writes: >> I am having some trouble sending mail to a particular host. >> >> MX reports ?protocol error. >> >> Enabling debug and checking the logs shows >> >> >> SMTP_SEND: Connected >> SMTP_SEND: Rcvd: 220-hostname SMTP server process >> SMTP_SEND: Rcvd: >> SMTP send failed, sts=0C27804A, sts2=0C278042 >> >> >> If I telnet to port 25 of the host I receive 4 introductory messages >> starting 220 >> >> 220-hostname SMTP server process >> 220-ElectricMail-MESSAGE-2.0-GAMMA Ready at date >> 220-Problems to ... >> 220 ESMTP spoken here >> >> >> Is MX objecting to the multiple messages? >> >> Can I do anything about it? > >I know MX can communicate to a host with multiple Welcome lines -- >tgv.com has them, and MX mailers can communicate to it. > >MX might be having a problem if the 220 message is terminated by only a LF >instead of CR+LF. > > >-Dan Wing > dwing@tgv.com / dwing@cisco.com > cisco Systems, Inc. >--------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- >Received: from gateway.actfs.co.uk ([97.25.10.11]) by agate.actfs.co.uk (MX > V4.1 AXP) with SMTP; Mon, 22 Jul 1996 23:12:49 BST >Received: from TGV.COM by gateway.actfs.co.uk (MX V4.1 VAX) with SMTP; Mon, 22 > Jul 1996 23:12:43 BST >Received: from CIA.Cisco.COM ([161.44.72.4]) by TGV.COM via INTERNET ; Mon, 22 > Jul 1996 15:12:04 PDT > > ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Tue, 23 Jul 1996 09:00:31 CST Sender: owner-mx-list@WKU.EDU Date: Tue, 23 Jul 1996 08:59:54 CST From: Hunter Goatley Reply-To: MX-List@MadGoat.com To: MX-List@MadGoat.com Message-ID: <009A5BFD.C74C063D.17@ALPHA.WKU.EDU> Subject: RE: MX-List Archive and Digests "Dave Harrold, CAM Operations, Ext. 25639" writes: > >Hi Everybody, > >Two Questions: > >1.) Where is the archive for the MX-List? I resubscribed to the list > lately and want to review some of the posts about digests, etc. I tried the > places listed in the list welcome message, but the archives are >non-existant > in the places listed. > They're on ftp.wku.edu in [.LISTS.MX-LIST]. You can search them and read them via the WWW using: gopher://gopher.wku.edu/11gopher_root:[madgoat] >2.) I am trying to set up a list with a digest running MX V4.2. I think I > have it setup right, but I seem to have a mail loop setup. I.e., the > digest is sent out, but the just sent out digest is added to the next > chunk to be processed for the digest. What am I doing wrong? > >Here is the details: > Your MCP definitions look OK---try enabling MX_MLF_DEBUG (and MX_ROUTER_DEBUG) (using DEF/SYS/EXEC) and check the log files created in MX_MLF_DIR: and MX_ROUTER_DIR: to see if they show what's going on. Hunter ------ Hunter Goatley, Sr. OpenVMS Systems Programmer, The LOKI Group, Inc. http://www.wku.edu/www/madgoat/hunter.html ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Tue, 23 Jul 1996 10:45:55 CST Sender: owner-mx-list@WKU.EDU Message-ID: Date: Tue, 23 Jul 1996 08:44:54 -0800 From: Dan Sugalski Reply-To: MX-List@MadGoat.com To: MX-List@MadGoat.com Subject: MX-List Archive and Digests -Reply >>> Dave Harrold, CAM Operations, Ext. 25639 07/22/96 08:32pm >>> 2.) I am trying to set up a list with a digest running MX V4.2. I think I have it setup right, but I seem to have a mail loop setup. I.e., the digest is sent out, but the just sent out digest is added to the next chunk to be processed for the digest. What am I doing wrong? <<<< This one gave me no end of headaches. The one thing that I needed to do was make the owner of the batch job sending the digest a list owner. Until I did that the digest went to everyone and kept getting bigger and bigger. Try it and do an MCP RESET. Dan ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Thu, 25 Jul 1996 00:15:41 CST Sender: owner-mx-list@WKU.EDU Date: Thu, 25 Jul 1996 17:13:01 NZST From: Lindsay Vette Reply-To: MX-List@MadGoat.com To: MX-List@WKUVX1.WKU.EDU CC: lindsay@countercorp.galen.co.nz Message-ID: <009A5DD4.FF917801.5@countercorp.galen.co.nz> Subject: How to block mail from certain sites Hi all, I have a question regarding blocking mail from certain sites. I seem to have gotten myself on several junk mail mailing lists. My response to any of these is to mail the postmaster of the system with a copy of the message, and a curt request to remove me from all their mailing lists. This seems not to have worked for a couple of these idiots. I'd like to be able to reject all mail from certain sites. Is this achievable? I don't want to just block those sites from our IP routing tables, because this won't work, as I'm getting the mail forwarded from another system (which I don't manage) that I have a mail account on, and I want most of the forwarded mail to get to me. Any ideas? Thanks, Lindsay -- Lindsay Vette | Internet: lindsay@countercorp.galen.co.nz Technical Development/Support | X.25: PSI%(05301)97000368::LINDSAY Countercorp Business Systems Ltd | Level 13, 125 Queen St | Phone: +64 9 309 7772 P.O. Box 105 339 | Fax: +64 9 309 2424 Auckland, New Zealand | Batphone: 025 850 379 Hip Hop for VMS System Managers: MC Authorize is in the house! ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Thu, 25 Jul 1996 02:19:52 CST Sender: owner-mx-list@WKU.EDU Date: Thu, 25 Jul 1996 09:19:26 +0200 From: "Rok Vidmar, NUK Ljubljana" Reply-To: MX-List@MadGoat.com To: MX-List@MadGoat.com Message-ID: <009A5D92.D729C23E.2@nuk.uni-lj.si> Subject: RE: How to block mail from certain sites ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Thu, 25 Jul 1996 03:07:50 CST Sender: owner-mx-list@WKU.EDU From: goathunter@madgoat.com (Hunter Goatley) Subject: Re: mail problems Date: 25 Jul 1996 06:50:25 GMT Message-ID: <4t75fh$nnh@news.wku.edu> Reply-To: MX-List@MadGoat.com To: MX-List@WKUVX1.WKU.EDU In article , chadwick@darwin.nmmnh-abq.mus.nm.us (John Chadwick) writes: > >I am running OpenVMS 6.2 and MX 4.2 with Multinet 3.5 on an Alpha. I keep >getting the following error messages only when trying to communicate with >other VMS systems with Multinet: > [...] > -Rcvd: 354 Start mail input; end with . > -Rcvd: 554 Received too many times by this host. You've got a loop defined, most likely because you're missing one or more needed PATHs in MCP. If you're running on a cluster, you must be sure each cluster node name is defined as a LOCAL PATH, unless you handle them with MX records or something. You can enable MX_ROUTER_DEBUG to see what's going on.... Hunter ------ Hunter Goatley, Sr. OpenVMS Systems Programmer, The LOKI Group, Inc. http://www.wku.edu/www/madgoat/hunter.html ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Thu, 25 Jul 1996 09:10:42 CST Sender: owner-mx-list@WKU.EDU Date: Thu, 25 Jul 1996 09:01:13 EDT From: "Brian Tillman, x8425" Reply-To: MX-List@MadGoat.com To: MX-List@MadGoat.com CC: lindsay@countercorp.galen.co.nz Message-ID: <009A5D90.4B662460.3@swdev.si.com> Subject: RE: How to block mail from certain sites Lindsay Vette (lindsay@countercorp.galen.co.nz) writes: >I seem to have gotten myself on several junk mail mailing lists. My response to >any of these is to mail the postmaster of the system with a copy of the >message, and a curt request to remove me from all their mailing lists. > >This seems not to have worked for a couple of these idiots. I'd like to be able >to reject all mail from certain sites. Is this achievable? Sometimes the idiot _is_ the postmaster. The SITE interface may be able to aid you in accomplishing what you want, but you could probably also use DELIVER, found at ftp.madgoat.com, among others. -----------------------------+-------------------------------- Brian Tillman | Internet: tillman_brian@si.com Smiths Industries, Inc. | tillman@swdev.si.com 4141 Eastern Ave., MS239 | Hey, I said this stuff myself. Grand Rapids, MI 49518-8727 | My company has no part in it. -----------------------------+-------------------------------- ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Mon, 29 Jul 1996 05:06:11 CST Sender: owner-mx-list@WKU.EDU Message-ID: <1.5.4.16.19960729095714.648f1408@agate.actfs.co.uk> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Mon, 29 Jul 1996 10:57:14 +0100 To: mx-list@wkuvx1.wku.edu From: John Rourke Reply-To: MX-List@MadGoat.com Subject: address_rewriter.c I have been experimenting with address_rewriter.c in the MX_ROOT:[EXAMPLES] directory. I created a file containing the line system guess.who and assigned the logicals mentioned in the comments of the program. When I send mail from the system account it is delivered with the FROM line changed to 'guess.who'. But, if I reply to the received mail, the message is bounced with a status of 'unknown user guess.who'. The program says E.g. mail from andrew@matai.vuw.ac.nz will get the From: rewritten as Andrew.Greer@vuw.ac.nz And mail coming into Andrew.Greer@vuw.ac.nz will get delivered to andrew@matai.vuw.ac.nz Am I misunderstanding something here? John Rourke ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Tue, 30 Jul 1996 09:22:14 CST Sender: owner-mx-list@WKU.EDU Date: Tue, 30 Jul 1996 10:18:23 EDT From: "Jonathan E. Hardis" Reply-To: MX-List@MadGoat.com To: MX-List@MadGoat.com CC: harrold@campv3.mfg.mke.ab.com, hardis@garnet.nist.gov Message-ID: <009A6188.E6F7FF60.2@garnet.nist.gov> Subject: RE: Put a trailer on every mail message through a mailing list. > I am setting up a mailing list on an alpha using MX V4.2. I would like > to put a trailer on every mail message sent out. It would have something > like how to unsubscribe, where the ftp site was, etc. > > Is there a way to do that? I'm guessing I'll have to use the site > interface to do it. Yes? Yes, you can easily do this using the SITE interface. Look through the May, 1996 list archives to find my instructions on how to set up a moderated mailing list (also using SITE). Using REWRITE_RULEs, you can intercept mail destined for the mailing list, and using a PATH, you can reroute it into SITE. There, you can use DCL commands (such as COPY/CONCAT) to add your trailer to the message. I suggest the following as a starting point, though I have not tested it: DEFINE REWRITE_RULE DEFINE REWRITE_RULE where: MailList is a mailing list that I run xxx is a secret password DEFINE PATH "mod-in" SITE/ROUTE="MOD-IN" MX_DEVICE:[MX.EXE]SITE_DELIVER.COM looks like: $ SET NOON $ $! Separate processing for different routes $ $ IF P1 .EQS. "OTHER" THEN GOTO OTHER_Start $ IF P1 .EQS. "MOD-IN" THEN GOTO Mod_In_Start $ EXIT 4 $ $!------------------------------------------------------------------------- $ .... $ $!------------------------------------------------------------------------- $ $ Mod_In_Start: $ $ MX_ENTER := $MX_EXE:MX_SITE_IN $ $ NEW_P2 = F$PARSE(";2",P2) $ NEW_P3 = F$PARSE(";2",P3) $! $! Modify contents of dest-file (P3) to change from @ to -xxx@ $! $ DEFINE/USER_MODE SYS$OUTPUT NL: $ EDIT/EDT/COMMAND=MX_ROOT:[SITE]CHANGE_P3_MODERATED.DAT 'P3' $! $! Modify contents of source-file (P2) to add trailer $! $ COPY/CONCAT 'P2',TRAILER.TXT 'NEW_P2' $! $! Send processed file on its way $! $ MX_ENTER 'NEW_P2' 'NEW_P3' "''P4'" $ $ $! Debugging information (Uncomment to see what's happening) $! $! $ open/write ofile mx_exe:showoff.txt $! $ write ofile p1 $! $ write ofile p2 $! $ write ofile p3 $! $ write ofile p4 $! $ write ofile new_p2 $! $ write ofile new_p3 $! $ close ofile $! $ copy 'p2' mx_exe:file2.txt $! $ copy 'p3' mx_exe:file3.txt $! $ copy 'new_p2' mx_exe:filen2.txt $! $ copy 'new_p3' mx_exe:filen3.txt $ $ $ DELETE 'NEW_P2' $ DELETE 'NEW_P3' $ $ $ EXIT 1 MX_ROOT:[SITE]CHANGE_P3_MODERATED.DAT looks like: SUBSTITUTE/MailList@>/MailList-xxx@>/ WHOLE /NOTYPE EXIT ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Tue, 30 Jul 1996 14:30:24 CST Sender: owner-mx-list@WKU.EDU Date: Tue, 30 Jul 1996 15:29:09 EST5EDT4,M4.1.0,M10.5.0 From: Scott McNeilly Reply-To: MX-List@MadGoat.com To: MX-List@MadGoat.com Message-ID: <009A61B4.51556700.59@fred.bridgew.edu> Subject: RE: address_rewriter.c From: John Rourke >I have been experimenting with address_rewriter.c in the MX_ROOT:[EXAMPLES] >directory. I created a file containing the line > > system guess.who > >and assigned the logicals mentioned in the comments of the program. > >When I send mail from the system account it is delivered with the FROM line >changed to 'guess.who'. But, if I reply to the received mail, the message >is bounced with a status of 'unknown user guess.who'. > >The program says > >E.g. mail from andrew@matai.vuw.ac.nz will get the From: rewritten as > Andrew.Greer@vuw.ac.nz >And mail coming into Andrew.Greer@vuw.ac.nz will get delivered to >andrew@matai.vuw.ac.nz > >Am I misunderstanding something here? > >John Rourke "Andrew.Greer" is not a valid VMS username, which, I suppose, is why you are using an address rewriter. But since valid usernames cannot contain ".", "guess.who" is not a valid username, either, and it is not surprising that "guess.who" is an "unknown user". So what means are you using to translate "guess.who" to a valid user? Are you using the same address rewriter? Or something else? -------------------------------------------------------------------- Scott Mc Neilly email: smcneilly@bridgew.edu Assistant Director Phone: 508-697-1236 Information Services FAX: 508-697-1774 Bridgewater State College Bridgewater, MA 02325 --------------------------------------------------------------------- ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Tue, 30 Jul 1996 14:39:24 CST Sender: owner-mx-list@WKU.EDU Date: Tue, 30 Jul 1996 21:38:05 +0200 From: Richard Levitte - GNU on VMS hacker Reply-To: MX-List@MadGoat.com To: MX-List@MadGoat.com Message-ID: <009A61E7.DB181F5D.2@e.kth.se> Subject: Quirk with /RETURN_ADDRESS in lists when mail contains Reply-To: When you define a list with a /RETURN_PATH (so the list members get the message from another address than the list's real name), you expect to get messages from the address specified there. The mailing list processor simply creates a Reply-To: header containing the correct information. There is, however, a quirk to this, and that's when the original message already contains a Reply-To: header... I was quite surprised when I tried to send a message to the following list from my working account (levitte@nation.se), using Netscape Navigator: Name: bofh-webmaster Owner: "levitte@LP.SE" Reply-to: List, Sender Archive: ORGS:[BOFH.MAIL] Errors-to: postbastard@bofh.se Return address: webbastard@bofh.se Strip header: NOReceived, NOOther Private list: No Case sensitive: Yes Digest support: No Protection: (SYSTEM:RWED,OWNER:RWED,GROUP:RWD,WORLD:RW) and it arrived to me from MX%"bofh-webmaster@lp.se",MX%"levitte@nation.se" (I have of course added myself on that list...). A few tests from mostly everywhere I could think of later, I noticed that the only messages where this quirk occured were the ones containing the Reply-To: header. To make completelly sure, I sent two message talking directly to the SMTP server (nic.lp.se), one not containing a Reply-To: header, and another containing one. Ta-da! Quirk proven. Unfortunatelly, I'm not much of a BLISS man. If anyone can come up with a patch that will correct this (maybe Hunter himself?), I'd be more than happy to try it out. Thank you. -- +--------------------------------------------------------------------+ ! Richard Levitte, GNU on VMS hacker ! tel: +46-8-26 52 47 ! ! Spannvägen 38, I ! fax: none for the moment ! ! S-161 43 Bromma ! Internet: levitte@e.kth.se ! ! SWEDEN ! ! +--The GNU on VMS Project---+ You may not add me to a commercial mailing list or send me commercial advertising without my consent! See http://www.e.kth.se/~levitte/anti.html for further reference. ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Tue, 30 Jul 1996 14:57:38 CST Sender: owner-mx-list@WKU.EDU From: reed@cbict3.cb.lucent.com Date: Tue, 30 Jul 1996 15:56:19 EDT Reply-To: MX-List@MadGoat.com To: MX-List@MadGoat.com Message-ID: <009A61B8.1CD258F4.11@cbict3.cb.lucent.com> Subject: Entry stuck in queue I'm running MX 4.1, AlphaVMS 6.1, UCX 3.2, and have been running for some time now with no issues. Today I sent a message, and it seemed to show up differently. The status command didn't show the entry in progress, rather all processes showed up as idle. However, the entry was still in the queue (marked as INPROG). I've included the output of the commands below. The message was just sitting there. I sent a message to another machine, and it went right on through OK. Why would the status show up as idle, when the message was still INPROG? And, any clues as to why the message was "stuck"? Being stuck doesn't bother me, if the other end wasn't responding, etc., it would timeout and re-enter the message. But being stuck for good does make me wonder. I did a "queue ready" on that entry, and it went right on its merry way then. Again, my main concern is that it seemed the "status" and "show queue" commands didn't agree. $mcp stat PID Process name Status Agent type -------- --------------- ------------------ ----------- 00000097 Idle Router agent 00000098 Idle Local delivery agent 0000009C Idle Mailing list/file server 00000099 Idle SMTP delivery agent 0000009B Idle SMTP server (over TCP/IP) 00000096 Idle MX FLQ manager $mcp show queue/all/full Entry: 3, Origin: [Local] Status: IN-PROGRESS, size: 434 bytes Created: 30-JUL-1996 15:25:11.26, expires 29-AUG-1996 15:25:11.26 Last modified 30-JUL-1996 15:25:12.66 SMTP entry #4, status: IN-PROGRESS, size: 434 bytes Created: 30-JUL-1996 15:25:12.16, expires 29-AUG-1996 15:25:11.26 Last modified 30-JUL-1996 15:25:12.55 Recipient #1: , Route=clockwise.mh.att.com Brian D. Reed Columbus Works bdreed1@lucent.com 614-860-6218 ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Tue, 30 Jul 1996 15:26:27 CST Sender: owner-mx-list@WKU.EDU Date: Tue, 30 Jul 1996 15:25:54 CST From: Hunter Goatley Reply-To: MX-List@MadGoat.com To: MX-List@MadGoat.com Message-ID: <009A61B3.DCF148B1.5@ALPHA.WKU.EDU> Subject: RE: Quirk with /RETURN_ADDRESS in lists when mail contains Reply-To: Richard Levitte - GNU on VMS hacker writes: > >When you define a list with a /RETURN_PATH (so the list members get >the message from another address than the list's real name), you >expect to get messages from the address specified there. The mailing >list processor simply creates a Reply-To: header containing the correct >information. There is, however, a quirk to this, and that's when the >original message already contains a Reply-To: header... > Yep, I discovered that myself a couple of weeks ago. >Unfortunatelly, I'm not much of a BLISS man. If anyone can come up with >a patch that will correct this (maybe Hunter himself?), I'd be more than >happy to try it out. > I have a fix for it, but it's not quite ready for prime-time. I'll try do that this week. Hunter ------ Hunter Goatley, Sr. OpenVMS Systems Programmer, The LOKI Group, Inc. http://www.wku.edu/www/madgoat/hunter.html ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Tue, 30 Jul 1996 15:28:27 CST Sender: owner-mx-list@WKU.EDU Date: Tue, 30 Jul 1996 15:28:00 CST From: Hunter Goatley Reply-To: MX-List@MadGoat.com To: MX-List@MadGoat.com CC: REED@CBICT3.CB.LUCENT.COM Message-ID: <009A61B4.2809A37A.14@ALPHA.WKU.EDU> Subject: RE: Entry stuck in queue reed@cbict3.cb.lucent.com writes: > >I did a "queue ready" on that entry, and it went right on its >merry way then. Again, my main concern is that it seemed the >"status" and "show queue" commands didn't agree. > [...] >00000099 Idle SMTP delivery agent [...] > >$mcp show queue/all/full > >Entry: 3, Origin: [Local] > Status: IN-PROGRESS, size: 434 bytes > Created: 30-JUL-1996 15:25:11.26, expires 29-AUG-1996 15:25:11.26 > Last modified 30-JUL-1996 15:25:12.66 > SMTP entry #4, status: IN-PROGRESS, size: 434 bytes This can happen if your SMTP agent dies while processing it. If you're running MX_WATCHDOG, a new one would have been automatically started, but this entry would be left IN-PROGRESS. Hunter ------ Hunter Goatley, Sr. OpenVMS Systems Programmer, The LOKI Group, Inc. http://www.wku.edu/www/madgoat/hunter.html ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Wed, 31 Jul 1996 03:17:18 CST Sender: owner-mx-list@WKU.EDU Message-ID: <1.5.4.16.19960731080822.5c37d520@agate.actfs.co.uk> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Wed, 31 Jul 1996 09:08:22 +0100 To: MX-List@MadGoat.com From: John Rourke Reply-To: MX-List@MadGoat.com Subject: RE: address_rewriter.c At 15:29 30/07/96 EST5EDT4,M4.1.0,, you wrote: >From: John Rourke > >>I have been experimenting with address_rewriter.c in the MX_ROOT:[EXAMPLES] >>directory. I created a file containing the line >> >> system guess.who >> >>and assigned the logicals mentioned in the comments of the program. >> >>When I send mail from the system account it is delivered with the FROM line >>changed to 'guess.who'. But, if I reply to the received mail, the message >>is bounced with a status of 'unknown user guess.who'. >> >>The program says >> >>E.g. mail from andrew@matai.vuw.ac.nz will get the From: rewritten as >> Andrew.Greer@vuw.ac.nz >>And mail coming into Andrew.Greer@vuw.ac.nz will get delivered to >>andrew@matai.vuw.ac.nz >> >>Am I misunderstanding something here? >> >>John Rourke > >"Andrew.Greer" is not a valid VMS username, which, I suppose, is why you are >using an address rewriter. But since valid usernames cannot contain ".", >"guess.who" is not a valid username, either, and it is not surprising that >"guess.who" is an "unknown user". So what means are you using to translate >"guess.who" to a valid user? Are you using the same address rewriter? Or >something else? > I am simply quoting from the comment lines in the supplied program which seem to imply that a) for outgoing mail, username will be changed to an alias and b) for incoming mail, alias will be changed to a username by address_rewriter.c following the data in the data file supplied by me. Am I misunderstanding the comments? JOhn Rourke ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Wed, 31 Jul 1996 08:03:10 CST Sender: owner-mx-list@WKU.EDU Date: Wed, 31 Jul 1996 15:02:49 +0200 From: "Rok Vidmar, NUK Ljubljana" Reply-To: MX-List@MadGoat.com To: MX-List@MadGoat.com Message-ID: <009A6279.CDB0C98C.3@nuk.uni-lj.si> Subject: RE: address_rewriter.c >>>I have been experimenting with address_rewriter.c in the MX_ROOT:[EXAMPLES] >>>directory. I created a file containing the line >>> >>> system guess.who >>> >>>and assigned the logicals mentioned in the comments of the program. >>> >>>When I send mail from the system account it is delivered with the FROM line >>>changed to 'guess.who'. But, if I reply to the received mail, the message >>>is bounced with a status of 'unknown user guess.who'. >>> >>>The program says >>> >>>E.g. mail from andrew@matai.vuw.ac.nz will get the From: rewritten as >>> Andrew.Greer@vuw.ac.nz >>>And mail coming into Andrew.Greer@vuw.ac.nz will get delivered to >>>andrew@matai.vuw.ac.nz >>> >>>Am I misunderstanding something here? >>> >>>John Rourke >> >>"Andrew.Greer" is not a valid VMS username, which, I suppose, is why you are >>using an address rewriter. But since valid usernames cannot contain ".", >>"guess.who" is not a valid username, either, and it is not surprising that >>"guess.who" is an "unknown user". So what means are you using to translate >>"guess.who" to a valid user? Are you using the same address rewriter? Or >>something else? >> > I am simply quoting from the comment lines in the supplied program which > seem to imply that > a) for outgoing mail, username will be changed to an alias > > and > > b) for incoming mail, alias will be changed to a username > > by address_rewriter.c following the data in the data file supplied by me. > > Am I misunderstanding the comments? No. But the beast on my Alpha just stopped working out of the blue and I never discovered why - I am not pressed, as I have aliasses a la "guess.who" (for other reasons) defined in my VMSMAIL_PROFILE too. Regards, Rok Vidmar Internet: rok.vidmar@uni-lj.si National and University Library Phone: +386 61 125 4218 Turjaska 1, 1000 Ljubljana Fax: +386 61 125 5007 Slovenia ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Wed, 31 Jul 1996 09:42:16 CST Sender: owner-mx-list@WKU.EDU Date: Wed, 31 Jul 1996 09:41:44 CST From: Hunter Goatley Reply-To: MX-List@MadGoat.com To: MX-List@MadGoat.com Message-ID: <009A624C.F304667B.2@ALPHA.WKU.EDU> Subject: RE: address_rewriter.c "Rok Vidmar, NUK Ljubljana" writes: > > No. But the beast on my Alpha just stopped working out of the blue and I never >discovered why - I am not pressed, as I have aliasses a la "guess.who" (for >other reasons) defined in my VMSMAIL_PROFILE too. > The .C version apparently has some bugs in it---others reported problems to me a few weeks ago. My advice: switch to the BLISS version. I can vouch for it because I use it---and it's written in BLISS and not C. ;-) (If you need the BLISS compilers, look on ftp.wku.edu in [.VMS.FREEWARE_CD.BLISS].) Hunter ------ Hunter Goatley, Sr. OpenVMS Systems Programmer, The LOKI Group, Inc. http://www.wku.edu/www/madgoat/hunter.html ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Wed, 31 Jul 1996 12:37:43 CST Sender: owner-mx-list@WKU.EDU Date: Wed, 31 Jul 1996 19:37:24 +0200 From: "Rok Vidmar, NUK Ljubljana" Reply-To: MX-List@MadGoat.com To: MX-List@MadGoat.com Message-ID: <009A62A0.29A79D6C.5@nuk.uni-lj.si> Subject: RE: address_rewriter.c > The .C version apparently has some bugs in it---others reported > problems to me a few weeks ago. My advice: switch to the BLISS > version. I can vouch for it because I use it---and it's written in > BLISS and not C. ;-) > > (If you need the BLISS compilers, look on ftp.wku.edu in > [.VMS.FREEWARE_CD.BLISS].) Where do I get STARLET (and LIB): $ BLISS ADDRESS_REWRITER LIBRARY 'SYS$LIBRARY:STARLET'; !Pull stuff from STARLET ........^ %BLS32-E-M_OPENIN, error opening SYS$LIBRARY:STARLET as input -RMS-E-FNF, file not found at line number 79 in file MX_DEVICE:[MX.EXAMPLES]ADDRESS_REWRITER.B32;2 %BLS32-E-TEXT, Fatal error - compilation aborted Regards, Rok Vidmar Internet: rok.vidmar@uni-lj.si National and University Library Phone: +386 61 125 4218 Turjaska 1, 1000 Ljubljana Fax: +386 61 125 5007 Slovenia ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Wed, 31 Jul 1996 12:54:04 CST Sender: owner-mx-list@WKU.EDU Date: Wed, 31 Jul 1996 12:53:56 CST From: Hunter Goatley Reply-To: MX-List@MadGoat.com To: MX-List@MadGoat.com CC: ROK.VIDMAR@NUK.UNI-LJ.SI Message-ID: <009A6267.CC49195D.9@ALPHA.WKU.EDU> Subject: RE: address_rewriter.c "Rok Vidmar, NUK Ljubljana" writes: > > Where do I get STARLET (and LIB): > In SYS$LIBRARY, you'll find STARLET.REQ and LIB.REQ. You'll need to create binary libraries from these using these commands: $ set default sys$common:[syslib] $ bliss/library starlet.req $ bliss/library=lib starlet.req+lib.req Hunter ------ Hunter Goatley, Sr. OpenVMS Systems Programmer, The LOKI Group, Inc. http://www.wku.edu/www/madgoat/hunter.html