Archive-Date: Fri, 01 Nov 1996 00:02:29 CST Sender: owner-mx-list@wku.edu Date: Fri, 01 Nov 1996 00:01:57 CST From: Hunter Goatley Reply-To: MX-List@MadGoat.com To: MX-List@LISTS.WKU.EDU Message-ID: <009AAB10.5C88D9E0.215@wku.edu> Subject: MX-LIST Administrivia: Monthly Post Posting statistics for list MX-LIST during October 1996 Total number of posts: 51 Total number of posters: 26 Total number of subscribers: 294 Last modified: 28-SEP-1995 13:33 (Updated digest info) Welcome to MX-List@LISTS.WKU.EDU, an electronic mailing list established for the discussion of the Message Exchange mail software. This is a routine posting you will see from time to time on MX-List. MX-List postings are also available in a daily digest format. To subscribe to the digest, send the following command in the body of a mail message to MXserver@LISTS.WKU.EDU: SUBSCRIBE MX-List-Digest "Your real name here" The MX-List archives are maintained at ARCHIVES@LISTS.WKU.EDU. To get a copy of any month's postings, send an e-mail message with the body SEND MX-List.yyyy-mm to ARCHIVES@LISTS.WKU.EDU, where "yyyy" is the year and "mm" is the numeric representation of the month. For example, the message SENDME MX-List.1992-04 will send the archives for April 1992. MX itself is available via anonymous ftp from ftp.spc.edu in [.MX.MX041]. You can also get it via e-mail by sending the commands SEND MX and SEND FILESERV_TOOLS on separate lines in the body of a mail message to FILESERV@LISTS.WKU.EDU. To remove yourself from the mailing list, send the following command to MXserver@LISTS.WKU.EDU: SIGNOFF MX-List MXserver supports a few other commands for your convenience. The following commands can be handled automatically by the list processor: SIGNOFF MX-List - to remove yourself from the list REVIEW MX-List - to get a list of subscribers QUERY MX-List - to get the status of your entry on the list SET MX-List DIGEST - to switch to digest mode SET MX-List NODIGEST - to switch to non-digest mode SET MX-List NOMAIL - to remain on the list but not receive mail SET MX-List MAIL - to resume receiving mail from the list SET MX-List CONCEAL - to not report your address in a REVIEW SET MX-List NOCONCEAL - to report your address in a REVIEW SET MX-List REPRO - to receive posts you make to MX-List SET MX-List NOREPRO - to not receive posts you make to MX-List LIST - to get a list of mailing lists served by WKUVX1 HELP - to receive a help file By default, subscriptions are set to MAIL, REPRO, NOCONCEAL. If you have any questions, comments, or suggestions about MX-List, please contact the list owner at the address below. =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Hunter Goatley, Sr. OpenVMS Systems Programmer goathunter@MadGoat.com Process Software P.O. Box 51745 Bowling Green, KY 42102-6745 =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Fri, 01 Nov 1996 04:31:08 CST Sender: owner-mx-list@wku.edu Date: Fri, 01 Nov 1996 10:30:14 GMT From: Andy Harper - KCL Systems manager Reply-To: MX-List@MadGoat.com To: MX-List@MadGoat.com CC: A.HARPER@kcl.ac.uk Message-ID: <009AAB68.21ACAEC0.43@alder.cc.kcl.ac.uk> Subject: RE: Pine and mx >We're using MX 4.2 on a VMS 5.5-2 system running VMS mail and Pine. >When the Pine users REply to a message the mx% is attached to the >username, then there's errors on REply unless the user edits out >the mx%. Some find that rather troublesome. Is there a way to >remove the mx% that won't affect the VMS Mail users? You have PINE configured to use the foreign mail interface rather than using SMTP direct. Add a line 'smtp_server=host' to your PINE.CONF file and all mail will be routed out via this host withou going via MX (PINE uses SMTP itself). Make sure is compiled with suitable tcp stack support. The latest VMS beta (3.91-beta8, beta9 shortly) supports NETLIB. Regards, Andy Harper Kings College London ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Fri, 01 Nov 1996 05:33:29 CST Sender: owner-mx-list@wku.edu From: dunnett@mala.bc.ca (Malcolm Dunnett) Reply-To: MX-List@MadGoat.com Subject: Problem with pruning of MX records Date: 31 Oct 96 22:23:31 -0700 Message-ID: <1996Oct31.222331@malvm1.mala.bc.ca> To: MX-List@WKUVX1.WKU.EDU I'm having a problem with multiple MX records. I have set up a Mercury server to gateway mail to our Novell network. Because I'm not sure at this point how stable the server will be I want to first catch all mail on our VMS system (running MX), then have it forward the mail to the Mercury server. In order to do this I set up the following DNS entries: faculty IN MX 0 malvm1.mala.bc.ca. IN MX 10 mailgate.mala.bc.ca. where malvm1 is the VMS system and mailgate is the mercury server. The idea is that the rest of the world will send mail to malvm1, since it is the preferred mail exchanger - and that malvm1 will forward the messages to mailgate ( since it is smart enough to not use itself as the exchanger ). This doesn't appear to work. MX receives the messages fine on the VMS system, but refuses to forward them to Mercury. A debug log of the session shows the following: 31-OCT-1996 21:54:40.56 Processing queue entry number 1384 on node MALVM1 31-OCT-1996 21:54:40.68 Recipient: , route=faculty.mala.bc.ca 31-OCT-1996 21:54:40.68 SMTP_SEND: looking up host name faculty.mala.bc.ca 31-OCT-1996 21:54:40.69 SMTP_SEND: DNS_MXLOOK status is 00000001 31-OCT-1996 21:54:40.69 PRUNE_MX_RRS: Pruning malvm1.Mala.BC.CA - Address match 31-OCT-1996 21:54:40.69 PRUNE_MX_RRS: Pruning mailgate.Mala.BC.CA - Preference too high 31-OCT-1996 21:54:40.70 SMTP_SEND: Attempting to start session with faculty.mala.bc.ca [134.87.44.101] 31-OCT-1996 21:54:40.70 -- failed, status=00000294 MX rejects the mercury server and tries to send mail directly to the host faculty.mala.bc.ca ( which is a Netware server which doesn't run SMTP ). Is this a bug or a feature? Is there a way to accomplish what I want? -- ============================================================================= Malcolm Dunnett Malaspina University-College Email: dunnett@mala.bc.ca Computer Services Nanaimo, B.C. CANADA V9R 5S5 Tel: (250)755-8738 ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Fri, 01 Nov 1996 05:39:24 CST Sender: owner-mx-list@wku.edu Date: Fri, 01 Nov 1996 11:38:24 GMT From: Andy Harper - KCL Systems manager Reply-To: MX-List@MadGoat.com To: mx-list@madgoat.com Message-ID: <009AAB71.A7780000.73@alder.cc.kcl.ac.uk> Subject: RE: Pine and mx >>We're using MX 4.2 on a VMS 5.5-2 system running VMS mail and Pine. >>When the Pine users REply to a message the mx% is attached to the >>username, then there's errors on REply unless the user edits out >>the mx%. Some find that rather troublesome. Is there a way to >>remove the mx% that won't affect the VMS Mail users? > > You have PINE configured to use the foreign mail interface rather than using >SMTP direct. Add a line 'smtp_server=host' to your PINE.CONF file and all >mail will be routed out via this host withou going via MX (PINE uses SMTP >itself). After i sent the above, i realised I was wrong. The actual problem is that you are using PINE to access a remote VMS mailbox. Thus it is the IMAP server on that VMS system that is returning the wrong headers to you. The latest PINE 3.91-beta8 code contains an IMAP server that should get the headers right, I suggest you get hold of it and install it. Get it from my ftp server: ftp://ftp2.kcl.ac.uk/zip/pine_3_91_beta_8.zip Regards, Andy Harper Kings College London ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Fri, 01 Nov 1996 07:16:34 CST Sender: owner-mx-list@wku.edu Message-ID: <199611011311.IAA14235@redstone.interpath.net> From: "Rich Hill" To: MX-List@MadGoat.com Date: Fri, 1 Nov 1996 08:05:53 -0400 Subject: Re: ??? - MX looping continues, HELP me Obi-Wan! You're my only Reply-To: MX-List@MadGoat.com CC: "Steven Bryan 644.3921" Content-Type: text > Dear MX Elders: > > Thanks to all for the good suggestions from yesterday on my looping problem! > > However, after removing the forwarding from VMSmail of the account > associated with my ListServ (IAC_LS), I find that I am still looping... > [snip] > *** Here's my MCP> SHOW ALL output *** > > MCP> SHO ALL > > Configuration file: MX_DEVICE:[MX]MX_CONFIG.MXCFG;24 > > MX version id is: MX V4.2 VAX > > Mailing lists: > Name: iac > Owner: "iac_ls@SOCCER.ODN.OHIO.GOV" > Reply-to: NOList, Sender > Archive: DAS:[IAC.LS] > Description: This is the IAC's (Internet Advisory Committee) primary > mailing l > ist > Errors-to: bryan@soccer.odn.ohio.gov > Strip header: NOReceived, NOOther > Private list: No > Case sensitive: No > Digest support: No > Protection: (SYSTEM:RWED,OWNER:RWED,GROUP:RWED,WORLD:E) > > > Domain-to-path mappings: > Domain="SOCCER.ODN.OHIO.GOV", Path=Local > Domain="SOCCER.OHIO.GOV", Path=Local > Domain="SOCCER", Path=Local > Domain="*.BITNET", Path=SMTP, Route="cunyvm.cuny.edu" > Domain="*.UUCP", Path=SMTP, Route="uunet.uu.net" > Domain="*", Path=SMTP > [snip] > MCP> queue show > > Entry# Status Size Source Agent Entry# Status Size > ------ ------ ------- ------ ------- ------ ------ ------- > 25 INPROG 3967 SMTP > SMTP 26 READY 3967 > > %MCP-I-QENTRIES, total matching entries: 1 I am not sure where the domain odnvms.ohio.gov is comming from, but if it is supposed to be the same as soccer.odn.ohio.gov, then you need to define it as a local path: DEFINE PATH odnvms.ohio.gov LOCAL Rich Hill -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Rich Hill S I M Rich.Hill@sim.org Systems Engineer b y EasyLink: 62923838 SIM USA, Inc. P r a y e r Phone: 1-704-587-1462 Charlotte, NC since 1893 FAX: 1-704-587-1518 -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [SC] Smiley captioned for the humor impaired. ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Fri, 01 Nov 1996 09:24:14 CST Sender: owner-mx-list@wku.edu Date: Fri, 01 Nov 1996 10:22:40 EST5EDT4,M4.1.0,M10.5.0 From: Scott McNeilly Reply-To: MX-List@MadGoat.com To: MX-List@MadGoat.com Message-ID: <009AAB67.135D3DE0.9@fred.bridgew.edu> Subject: RE: Problem with pruning of MX records > I'm having a problem with multiple MX records. > I have set up a Mercury server to gateway mail to our Novell >network. Because I'm not sure at this point how stable the >server will be I want to first catch all mail on our VMS >system (running MX), then have it forward the mail to >the Mercury server. In order to do this I set up the following >DNS entries: > >faculty IN MX 0 malvm1.mala.bc.ca. > IN MX 10 mailgate.mala.bc.ca. > > where malvm1 is the VMS system and mailgate is the >mercury server. The idea is that the rest of the world will send >mail to malvm1, since it is the preferred mail exchanger - and >that malvm1 will forward the messages to mailgate ( since it is >smart enough to not use itself as the exchanger ). > This doesn't appear to work. MX receives the messages fine on the >VMS system, but refuses to forward them to Mercury. A debug log of >the session shows the following: Right. It doesn't work, but it's not a bug or a feature of MX, but rather a consequence of the rules governing the use of MX records in your DNS. Anyway, malvm1 will not send to mailgate because mailgate is in the same domain but "farther away". By giving mailgate a lower preference than malvm1, you are preventing malvm1 from sending to it. According to the rules, malvm1 has to send to a mail exchanger with a higher preference rating. But there is no higher preference rating than 0. I think that you probably want to use DEFINE PATH /ROUTE to distribute the mail rather than using the DNS. And since you want mail from the outside world to go to malvm1, why put an MX record for mailgate in your DNS? >============================================================================= >Malcolm Dunnett Malaspina University-College Email: dunnett@mala.bc.ca >Computer Services Nanaimo, B.C. CANADA V9R 5S5 Tel: (250)755-8738 -------------------------------------------------------------------- Scott Mc Neilly email: smcneilly@bridgew.edu Assistant Director Phone: 508-697-1236 Information Services FAX: 508-697-1774 Bridgewater State College Bridgewater, MA 02325 --------------------------------------------------------------------- ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Fri, 01 Nov 1996 09:43:43 CST Sender: owner-mx-list@wku.edu Date: Fri, 01 Nov 1996 16:42:24 EST From: "Mario Meyer, Phys.-Techn. Bundesanstalt" Reply-To: MX-List@MadGoat.com To: MX-List@MadGoat.com Message-ID: <009AAB9C.1F94AAE1.5@ChbRB.Berlin.PTB.De> Subject: RE: Problem with pruning of MX records Hi Malcolm, The highest priorized MTA is MALVM1, it tries to transfer to itself. The error status=00000294 translates as "%SYSTEM-F-REJECT, connect to network object rejected" MALVM1 rejects the SMTP connection to itself. Otherwise the Mail would loop. I have similar routing policy: Most MX-records for the domain Berlin.PTB.De points to Cluster-Alias ChbRB.Berlin.PTB.De (preference = 10) and FhgRB.Berlin.PTB.De (preference = 20) for failover) The MX-Mailer has a path for every internal SMTP-server in the form Domain="macbeth", Path=SMTP, Route="macbeth.MX.Berlin.PTB.De" Domain="macbeth.Berlin.PTB.De", Path=SMTP, Route="macbeth.MX.Berlin.PTB.De" In my nameserver there is a subdomain MX.Berlin.PTB.De with MX-records pointing back to the original hosts: macbeth.mx.Berlin.PTB.De preference = 2, mail exchanger = macbeth.Berlin.PTB.De macbeth.Berlin.PTB.De inet address = 192.168.102.173 This avoids looping and allows use of a private address network (192.168.102.0). I think that this would be a solution for you too. Mario --,------------------------------------------------------.------------------ | Mario Meyer Physikalisch-Technische Bundesanstalt | . , | ............. Institut Berlin Referat IB.TI | _QQ__ | : wide area : Abbestr. 2-12, D - 10587 Berlin | __( U, )__ | : networker : tel. (+49 30) 3481 472, fax. ... 490 | /// `---' \\\ | SMTP: MMeyer@Berlin.PTB.De, BITNET: MMeyer@PTBIB | /||\ /||\ --| X.400: S=Meyer; OU=IB-TI; O=PTB; P=PTB; A=d400; C=DE |------------------ `------------------------------------------------------' ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Fri, 01 Nov 1996 17:51:06 CST Sender: owner-mx-list@wku.edu Date: Fri, 01 Nov 1996 16:49:43 MST From: cdooling@west.cscwc.pima.edu Reply-To: MX-List@MadGoat.com To: MX-List@MadGoat.com Message-ID: <009AAB9D.2528FF60.17@west.cscwc.pima.edu> Subject: RE: Pine and mx DATE SENT: 1-NOV-1996 16:49:08 >on that VMS system that is returning the wrong headers to you. The latest PINE >3.91-beta8 code contains an IMAP server that should get the headers right, I >suggest you get hold of it and install it. > >Get it from my ftp server: > > ftp://ftp2.kcl.ac.uk/zip/pine_3_91_beta_8.zip Thanks much!!! ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Cindy Dooling WEST::CDOOLING PimaCommunityCollege cdooling@west.pima.edu 2202 W. Anklam voice: 520 884-6970 Tucson, Arizona 85709-0010 fax: 520 884-6033 http://west.pima.edu/~cdooling Nothing but Net *** No FEAR, just a healthy respect *** ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Fri, 01 Nov 1996 21:05:11 CST Sender: owner-mx-list@wku.edu Subject: Re: ??? - MX looping continues, HELP me Obi-Wan! You're my only hope... Message-ID: From: levitte@lp.se (Richard Levitte - VMS Whacker) Reply-To: MX-List@MadGoat.com Date: 01 Nov 1996 23:00:57 GMT To: MX-List@WKUVX1.WKU.EDU In article "Steven Bryan 644.3921" writes: Domain-to-path mappings: Domain="SOCCER.ODN.OHIO.GOV", Path=Local Domain="SOCCER.OHIO.GOV", Path=Local Domain="SOCCER", Path=Local Domain="*.BITNET", Path=SMTP, Route="cunyvm.cuny.edu" Domain="*.UUCP", Path=SMTP, Route="uunet.uu.net" Domain="*", Path=SMTP ... *** Output in log file: [MX.SMTP]_$MX_SMTP_LOG.LOG *** This log file was very large so I cut the 1st few entries out and the last few. The in-between just repeats the same info... *** *** *** *** 31-OCT-1996 06:50:43.57 Processing queue entry number 111 on node SOCCER 31-OCT-1996 06:50:43.91 Recipient: , route=odnvms.ohio.gov First of all, odnvms.ohio.gov doesn't exist according to VMS, so I'd guess that's a very local host definition, and that it has the same IP number as soccer.odn.ohio.gov. So, MX on soccer.odn.ohio.gov gets a mail that is to be sent to Postmaster@odnvms.ohio.gov. Looking through the domain-to-path list, it comes down to "*", which is to be sent with SMTP. It does so. So, MX on soccer.odn.ohio.gov gets a mail that is to be sent to Postmaster@odnvms.ohio.gov. Looking through the domain-to-path list, it comes down to "*", which is to be sent with SMTP. It does so. So, MX on soccer.odn.ohio.gov gets... Looplooploop... Doing the following in MCP should fix that problem: MCP> DEF PATH ODNVMS.OHIO.GOV LOCAL MCP> RESET/ALL -- R Levitte, Levitte Programming; Spannvägen 38, I; S-161 43 Bromma; SWEDEN Tel: +46-8-26 52 47; No fax right now PGP key fingerprint = A6 96 C0 34 3A 96 AA 6C B0 D5 9A DF D2 E9 9C 65 Check http://www.lp.se/~levitte for my public key. bastard@bofh.se ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Fri, 01 Nov 1996 21:05:47 CST Sender: owner-mx-list@wku.edu From: dwing@tgv.com ("Dan Wing") Subject: Re: MX SMTP Server Dies, String Too Long Date: 2 Nov 1996 00:54:00 GMT Message-ID: <55e638$9vk@cronkite.cisco.com> Reply-To: MX-List@MadGoat.com To: INFO-MULTINET@TGV.COM In article , mfleming@csubak.edu (Michael W. Fleming) writes: [...] > I got packet captures with: > $ MU TCPDUMP/HEX/VERBOSE/OUT=SMTP-DUMP.LOG PORT 25 AND NOT SRC NET 136.168 > > (This of course only gets me the packets from the other host. Any > suggestions on how to get my responses to these packets? Anything else I > should have done?) Your expression includes "AND NOT SRC NET 136.168" so you won't see any packets with a source address of 136.168.0.0. Simply change your filter expression to: PORT 25 > I wasn't able to capture packets during every exit and so far I haven't > been able to find out who was killing us. (I'm not done yet--looking for > patterns correlated to time in a packet capture dump is tedious at best.) Try this instead. In a batch job, do: $ SET PROC/PRIV=ALL $ SET PROC/PRIOR=5 $ MULTINET TCPDUMP/WRITE_BINARY=file/SNAP=1514 PORT 25 then when the MX SMTP process dies kill the batch job and do something like: $ MULTINET TCPDUMP/READ_BINARY=file/AFTER="-00:10:00" and you'll see the last 10 minutes of traffic which should help track down the problem. Use /HEX/SNAP=1514 to see the contents of the packets, and you can re-apply more filters at this point, too, to make seeing one connection much easier. > We weathered the storm and it appears to have passed--for how long is > anybody's guess. > > Given the circumstances it *appears* to have been an inocuous attempt at > sending malformed mail that just happened to kill my server, Yep. See MX-List archives (archives@wkuvx1.wku.edu, I believe) for a discussion about this very problem from a month ago or so. > BUT... > > the similarity to the recently much bally-hooed large-packet ping attack > is striking. Unrelated. Large pings are ICMP messages and wouldn't affect your SMTP Server in this manner. > Some questions: > > Is anybody aware of people hacking SMTP in this manner? (That is, how > paranoid do I need to get?) This problem is somewhat common with spammers that accidentally include their entire spam list on the "To:" header as one (non-wrapped) line. > How big of a job would it be to correct this problem? (mmmm... Hunter?) He has previously mentioned (on MX-List) that it is 'on his list' for the next version of MX. > Should I switch to TGV's SMTP server and "inconvenience" the 20 some odd > mailing lists defined in MX? Our SMTP Server includes support for mailing lists, but doesn't have automatic subscribe/unsubscribe nor Fileserv support, unfortunately (and some other MX features which you might now be relying on). > Is it time to go with a commercial product such as PMDF (WOW! are they > ever expensive!) or L-Soft (does their mail server package even run under > VMS? (I know their ListServ does)). Yes, L-Soft's package does run on VMS, but it requires you to install PMDF or MX, and as the problem you're having is MX's SMTP Server, installing L-Soft's mailer wouldn't help. -Dan Wing dwing@cisco.com cisco Systems, Inc. ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Sun, 03 Nov 1996 01:34:22 CST Sender: owner-mx-list@wku.edu Date: Sun, 03 Nov 1996 02:33:22 EST From: "Jonathan E. Hardis" Reply-To: MX-List@MadGoat.com To: MX-List@MadGoat.com CC: savoy@hg.uleth.ca, hardis@garnet.nist.gov Message-ID: <009AACB7.D8C93A60.2@garnet.nist.gov> Subject: RE: list moderator query > Is it possible to make the owner of the list a "moderator"? Yes. It requires the SITE interface. Browse through the past couple of years of the archive and you'll find the recipie. - Jonathan ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Sun, 03 Nov 1996 03:18:15 CST Sender: owner-mx-list@wku.edu From: Matthew Madison Reply-To: MX-List@MadGoat.com Subject: Re: Problem with pruning of MX records Date: Sat, 02 Nov 1996 09:53:39 -0800 Message-ID: <327B8AA3.4EFA@MadGoat.Com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit To: MX-List@WKUVX1.WKU.EDU Malcolm Dunnett wrote: > > I'm having a problem with multiple MX records. [...] > MX rejects the mercury server and tries to send mail directly to the host > faculty.mala.bc.ca ( which is a Netware server which doesn't run SMTP ). > > Is this a bug or a feature? Is there a way to accomplish what I want? It's a feature -- compliance with RFC974. In order to have MX forward mail for faculty.mala.bc.ca, you should have an explicit PATH definition that directs the mail to mailgate.mala.bc.ca. -Matt ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Sun, 03 Nov 1996 16:44:39 CST Sender: owner-mx-list@wku.edu Date: Sun, 03 Nov 1996 15:14:14 MST From: Jim Savoy Reply-To: MX-List@MadGoat.com To: MX-LIST@MADGOAT.COM Message-ID: <009AAD22.232031E4.280@hg.uleth.ca> Subject: list moderator query >> I asked: >> Is it possible to make the owner of the list a "moderator"? > Jonathan replied: > Yes. It requires the SITE interface. > Browse through the past couple of years of the archive and you'll find > the recipie. Found it! Thanks. I'll give it a whirl... - jim savoy - - university of lethbridge - - savoy@hg.uleth.ca - ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Mon, 04 Nov 1996 05:46:36 CST Sender: owner-mx-list@wku.edu Date: Mon, 04 Nov 1996 06:45:47 -0400 (EDT) From: "Steven Bryan 644.3921" Reply-To: MX-List@MadGoat.com Subject: FYI - THANKS! 2 all for help on: ??? - MX looping continues, HELP me Obi-Wan! You're my only hope! To: MX-List Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Especial THANKS to Brian from Lucent/Columbus and Mike from Montana!! They were the 1st to point out that just because UCX knows my cluster alias name doesn't mean MX does! I defined the MX path ODNVMS.OHIO.GOV to be equal to SOCCER.OHIO.GOV and everything worked. Thanks again, MX community!! Steven Bryan Network Software Manager the State of Ohio Dept. of Administrative Services Ohio Data Network 1320 Arthur E. Adams Drive Columbus, Ohio 43221 614.644.3921 614.752.6108 (Fax) bryan@ohio.gov ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Wed, 06 Nov 1996 10:40:24 CST Sender: owner-mx-list@wku.edu From: Blacka@logica.com (Andrew Black) Reply-To: MX-List@MadGoat.com Subject: Limiting the size of messages on Mailing lists? Date: Wed, 06 Nov 96 16:13:35 GMT Message-ID: <55qdi3$s3s@romeo.logica.co.uk> To: MX-List@WKUVX1.WKU.EDU Is it possible to limit the size of messages that get posted to an MX mailing list. I am trying to exclude binary postings and size gives a broad brush way of doing that. ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Wed, 06 Nov 1996 11:25:15 CST Sender: owner-mx-list@wku.edu Date: Wed, 06 Nov 1996 12:24:57 EST From: "Jonathan E. Hardis" Reply-To: MX-List@MadGoat.com To: MX-List@MadGoat.com CC: Blacka@logica.com, hardis@garnet.nist.gov Message-ID: <009AAF65.FC5C34E0.14@garnet.nist.gov> Subject: RE: Limiting the size of messages on Mailing lists? > Is it possible to limit the size of messages that get posted to an > MX mailing list. I am trying to exclude binary postings and > size gives a broad brush way of doing that. Someone else asked this question a few months ago, and the answer is yes. Using the same scheme as I use for a moderated mailing list, you can direct all mail addressed to the list through the SITE interface. The SITE command file would forward the message back to the real mailing list only if the size of the message file was under a threshold. - Jonathan ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Wed, 06 Nov 1996 12:58:12 CST Sender: owner-mx-list@wku.edu Date: Wed, 06 Nov 1996 19:57:47 EST From: "Mario Meyer, Phys.-Techn. Bundesanstalt" Reply-To: MX-List@MadGoat.com To: MX-List@MadGoat.com CC: mmeyer@ChbRB.Berlin.PTB.De Message-ID: <009AAFA5.3F0B9FC1.22@ChbRB.Berlin.PTB.De> Subject: Restriction for SMTP peers Im looking for a way to reject incoming SMTP connections from our internal net to trustworth hosts to block fakes from inside PeeCees or Telnetters. I could specify an access list for every UCX service, but I use MX instead of UCX SMTP. Is there a way ? Maybe the SMTP service in UCX can be modified to activate the MX-SMTP-Server ? Could this feature be attched to the ever growing wish list ? (cool, Hunter ! MX is still a master piece without that. Thanks anyway) Mario --,------------------------------------------------------.------------------ | Mario Meyer Physikalisch-Technische Bundesanstalt | . , | ............. Institut Berlin Referat IB.TI | _QQ__ | : wide area : Abbestr. 2-12, D - 10587 Berlin | __( U, )__ | : networker : tel. (+49 30) 3481 472, fax. ... 490 | /// `---' \\\ | SMTP: MMeyer@Berlin.PTB.De, BITNET: MMeyer@PTBIB | /||\ /||\ --| X.400: S=Meyer; OU=IB-TI; O=PTB; P=PTB; A=d400; C=DE |------------------ `------------------------------------------------------' ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Thu, 07 Nov 1996 02:09:48 CST Sender: owner-mx-list@wku.edu From: mp@zephyr.tls.mms.fr Reply-To: MX-List@MadGoat.com Date: Thu, 07 Nov 1996 09:12:34 MET To: MX-List@madgoat.com Message-ID: <009AB014.46EFDBC0.1@zephyr.tls.mms.fr> Subject: RE: Limiting the size of messages on Mailing lists? |> Is it possible to limit the size of messages that get posted to an |> MX mailing list. I am trying to exclude binary postings and |> size gives a broad brush way of doing that. | |Someone else asked this question a few months ago, and the answer is |yes. And I did a few weeks ago but had no time to do it. I think you should take a look at the way the digest is implemented and specially to the MX_EXE:SITE_DELIVER.COM command file. This DCL gets 4 parameters : 1) route name as defined in a /ROUTE on DEFINE PATH 2) name of RFC-822 formatted file (to check its size) 3) name of RFC-822 addresses to receive file 4) RFC-822-compliant sender's address (to send an automatic reply) |Using the same scheme as I use for a moderated mailing list, you can direct |all mail addressed to the list through the SITE interface. The SITE |command file would forward the message back to the real mailing list only |if the size of the message file was under a threshold. That's it. And if you spend more time than I did 'til now, I'd be interested in your development (as others here, I guess). ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Manuel PINTOR | Tel. : +33 05 62 19 51 59 TDHS manager \ VMS/UNIX system manager | Secr. : +33 05 62 19 72 06 for "Telecoms Operations" | FAX : +33 05 62 19 73 32 at Matra Marconi Space - Toulouse | E-mail : mp@zephyr.tls.mms.fr STERIA I&S FRANCE | pintor_m@decus.fr ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Heller's Law: The first myth of management is that it exists. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Thu, 07 Nov 1996 08:48:37 CST Sender: owner-mx-list@wku.edu From: del@giant.intranet.com (G. Del Merritt) Reply-To: MX-List@MadGoat.com Subject: looking for folk with high SMTP volume Message-ID: <1996Nov7.081927.16365@giant> Date: 7 Nov 96 08:19:27 EDT To: MX-List@WKUVX1.WKU.EDU I am looking for the experiences of folk whose SMTP servers are currently supporting mail volumes on the order of 10K messages *per hour* or higher on a single system. If you have such a level of volume, was your SMTP server software able to support it out of the box? If (as I expect) not, what did you have to do to get to that level of service? What hardware have you found necessary to support your service? I have crossposted this to the vmsnet.mail.* heirarchy, and I have set followups to vmsnet.mail.misc. Feel free to respond to me in private email. -- Del Merritt, ** del@IntraNet.com IntraNet, Inc., One Gateway Center #700, Newton, MA 02158 Voice: 617-527-7020; FAX: 617-527-1761 Just say no to Clipper. You may not add me to a commercial mailing list or send me commercial advertising without my consent. ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Thu, 07 Nov 1996 14:28:40 CST Sender: owner-mx-list@wku.edu Date: Thu, 7 Nov 1996 15:26:59 -0500 From: "Joe Macewicz ext.2116" Reply-To: MX-List@MadGoat.com To: MX-List@MadGoat.com Message-ID: <96Nov7.152801est.62213@net.usnews.com> Subject: List to big for Firewall I have a list of over six thousand that crashes my firewalls mail server every time its is used. Is there any way with MX 4.2 to have it sent in blocks of 500 to 1000 so my so-called vendor supported Firewall does not go to the dumps. The vendor says it cannot correct their problem. Thanks in Advance Joe ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Thu, 07 Nov 1996 16:08:28 CST Sender: owner-mx-list@wku.edu Message-ID: <2.2.32.19961107220835.006dce44@celia.kjsl.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Thu, 07 Nov 1996 14:08:35 -0800 To: MX-List@MadGoat.com From: Javier Henderson Reply-To: MX-List@MadGoat.com Subject: Re: List to big for Firewall At 03:26 PM 11/7/96 -0500, you wrote: >I have a list of over six thousand that crashes my firewalls mail server >every time its is used. Is there any way with MX 4.2 to have it sent in >blocks of 500 to 1000 so my so-called vendor supported Firewall does not go >to the dumps. I hope this isn't a Cisco product... >The vendor says it cannot correct their problem. Punch a hole on the firewall to let your host running MX do outbound TCP on port 25? Javier Henderson javier@kjsl.com (home) / javier@tgv.com (work) ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Fri, 08 Nov 1996 09:33:38 CST Sender: owner-mx-list@wku.edu From: Blacka@logica.com (Andrew Black) Reply-To: MX-List@MadGoat.com Subject: RE: Limiting the size of messages on Mailing lists? Date: Fri, 08 Nov 96 15:27:10 GMT Message-ID: <55vjj7$rs4@romeo.logica.co.uk> To: MX-List@WKUVX1.WKU.EDU Thanks for the help so far. In article <009AB014.46EFDBC0.1@zephyr.tls.mms.fr>, mp@zephyr.tls.mms.fr wrote: >|Using the same scheme as I use for a moderated mailing list, you can direct >|all mail addressed to the list through the SITE interface. The SITE >|command file would forward the message back to the real mailing list only >|if the size of the message file was under a threshold. What I am not following is how the resent message gets through to the real mailling list, and doesnt loop round the site interface ad infinitum. >That's it. And if you spend more time than I did 'til now, I'd be interested in >your development (as others here, I guess). Either I have a better solution or I am thick :-) ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Fri, 08 Nov 1996 10:42:59 CST Sender: owner-mx-list@wku.edu Date: Fri, 08 Nov 1996 11:42:35 EST From: "Jonathan E. Hardis" Reply-To: MX-List@MadGoat.com To: MX-List@MadGoat.com CC: Blacka@logica.com, hardis@garnet.nist.gov Message-ID: <009AB0F2.667419A0.16@garnet.nist.gov> Subject: RE: Limiting the size of messages on Mailing lists? >> Using the same scheme as I use for a moderated mailing list, you can direct >> all mail addressed to the list through the SITE interface. The SITE >> command file would forward the message back to the real mailing list only >> if the size of the message file was under a threshold. > What I am not following is how the resent message gets through to the > real mailling list, and doesnt loop round the site interface ad infinitum. It's the clever use of rewrite rules. Remember, only the first rule that matches applies. You rewrite the list address into an address that goes to SITE. SITE sends it back to a secret address that gets rewritten to the list address. None of this shows up in the headers. - Jonathan ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Fri, 08 Nov 1996 13:26:33 CST Sender: owner-mx-list@wku.edu From: dwing@tgv.com ("Dan Wing") Subject: Re: List to big for Firewall Date: 8 Nov 1996 17:57:55 GMT Message-ID: <55vsb3$cmq@cronkite.cisco.com> Reply-To: MX-List@MadGoat.com To: MX-List@WKUVX1.WKU.EDU In article <96Nov7.152801est.62213@net.usnews.com>, "Joe Macewicz ext.2116" writes: > I have a list of over six thousand that crashes my firewalls mail server > every time its is used. Is there any way with MX 4.2 to have it sent in > blocks of 500 to 1000 so my so-called vendor supported Firewall does not go > to the dumps. > > The vendor says it cannot correct their problem. > > Thanks in Advance Matt wrote a hack to MLF which allows controlling this. I extended it slightly to use a logical name. Source is available via Anonymous ftp from public.tgv.com in [.dwing]forward_message.b32. This code is modified from MX V4.1, but I don't believe there were any changes to this module between V4.1 and V4.2. -Dan Wing dwing@cisco.com cisco Systems, Inc. ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Sun, 10 Nov 1996 10:08:38 CST Sender: owner-mx-list@wku.edu Subject: ETRN? Message-ID: From: levitte@lp.se (Richard Levitte - VMS Whacker) Reply-To: MX-List@MadGoat.com Date: 10 Nov 1996 15:56:23 GMT To: MX-List@WKUVX1.WKU.EDU I have some users that would like to have the buffered mail forwarded to their Un*x machine at their command. To make this understandable, this is how the MX records look like: .domain. IN MX 10 .domain. IN MX 20 mailhost.domain. If was up all or most of the time, the whole thing would not be a problem. Unfortunatelly those users connects with a regular modem through an ISP. In this country, even local calls cost a bunch after a while. So, those users would like to be able to connect, and send my machine a command telling it to got through the queue and send them all their mail at once (or as at once as possible). When I worked as sysadmin at an ISP, I've done these kinds of things with sendmail, using a few tricks. I've been thinking of using a bunch of SITE procedures to implement a similar function, but it'd be rather kludgy, and probably pretty heavy on the CPU. Such a function would probably also be pretty usefull for ISP's using VMS, with users wanting to talk SMTP with them instead of POP or IMAP. Let's get to the point now. I've just read through RFC 1985 (~14kB). It defines the ETRN command, which addresses the problem given above. I'd like to know if this has ever been brought into attention to Hunter or Matt, and if you've given it any thought, and possibly if it's already in the wishlist. If none is true, I'd like to see that function beeing added to the wishlist. I'd be most happy to provide any kind of needed information, and to help you test it. If I was a better BLISS programmer, I'd even help out implementing it, but unfortunatelly, I'm hardly even a newbie in that language. (Yes, I know, I've said before that I'd learn BLISS, but I've had a factor stopping me: time) -- R Levitte, Levitte Programming; Spannvägen 38, I; S-161 43 Bromma; SWEDEN Tel: +46-8-26 52 47; No fax right now PGP key fingerprint = A6 96 C0 34 3A 96 AA 6C B0 D5 9A DF D2 E9 9C 65 Check http://www.lp.se/~levitte for my public key. bastard@bofh.se ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Mon, 11 Nov 1996 12:27:44 CST Sender: owner-mx-list@wku.edu Date: Mon, 11 Nov 1996 12:26:18 X-MX-Warning: Warning -- Invalid "From" header. From: Chance Eppinette, Ntwk. Manager Reply-To: MX-List@MadGoat.com Message-ID: <19961111122618eppinette@optivity.nlu.edu> To: mx-list@wku.edu Subject: smtp server not accepting connections. CC: eppinett@nlu.edu MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hello all, I have hopefully a quick question. Out of the blue my users started getting the following errors when using the VMS mail utility. %MAIL-E-ERRACTRNS, error activating transport SMTP %LIB-E-ACTIMAGE, error activating image DRA1:[MX.][ALPHA_EXE]MX_MAILSHRP.EXE;4 -SYSTEM-F-PROTINSTALL, protected images must be installed I have seen this once before and I think I asked about it. I was told it probably was caused by the time used by the watchdog procedure in resetting and checking the MX processes. This morning was a constant interruption by this problem. SMTP connections from POPmail and incoming mail seemed to be affected also. I finally restarted MX to get around the problem. Any ideas!! Oh, I have been running MX for about 9 months with very little problem. This is VMS 6.1 and Multinet 3.4A. I have also installed the version 2 of NETLIB. Thanks Chance Eppinette +-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-+ | Chance Eppinette | | Systems and Networks Specialist | | Northeast Louisiana University | | (318)342-5015 | | eppinette@nlu.edu | +-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-+ ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Tue, 12 Nov 1996 16:51:35 CST Sender: owner-mx-list@wku.edu Date: Tue, 12 Nov 1996 16:50:10 X-MX-Warning: Warning -- Invalid "From" header. From: Chance Eppinette, Ntwk. Manager Reply-To: MX-List@MadGoat.com Message-ID: <19961112165010eppinette@optivity.nlu.edu> To: mx-list@wku.edu Subject: smtp server not accepting connections. CC: eppinette@nlu.edu MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > Sending this again to make sure it did get to the list OK. No replys yet. Hello all, I have hopefully a quick question. Out of the blue my users started getting the following errors when using the VMS mail utility. %MAIL-E-ERRACTRNS, error activating transport SMTP %LIB-E-ACTIMAGE, error activating image DRA1:[MX.][ALPHA_EXE]MX_MAILSHRP.EXE;4 -SYSTEM-F-PROTINSTALL, protected images must be installed I have seen this once before and I think I asked about it. I was told it probably was caused by the time used by the watchdog procedure in resetting and checking the MX processes. This morning was a constant interruption by this problem. SMTP connections from POPmail and incoming mail seemed to be affected also. I finally restarted MX to get around the problem. Any ideas!! Oh, I have been running MX for about 9 months with very little problem. This is VMS 6.1 and Multinet 3.4A. I have also installed the version 2 of NETLIB. Thanks Chance Eppinette +-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-+ | Chance Eppinette | | Systems and Networks Specialist | | Northeast Louisiana University | | (318)342-5015 | | eppinette@nlu.edu | +-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-+ ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Tue, 12 Nov 1996 22:52:39 CST Sender: owner-mx-list@wku.edu Date: Tue, 12 Nov 1996 22:52:31 CST From: Hunter Goatley Reply-To: MX-List@MadGoat.com To: MX-List@MadGoat.com Message-ID: <009AB474.A64CAB66.21@ALPHA.WKU.EDU> Subject: RE: smtp server not accepting connections. Chance Eppinette, Ntwk. Manager writes: > >> Sending this again to make sure it did get to the list OK. No replys >yet. > Sorry, I've been busy. Baby girl #3 was born today! 8-) >%MAIL-E-ERRACTRNS, error activating transport SMTP >%LIB-E-ACTIMAGE, error activating image >DRA1:[MX.][ALPHA_EXE]MX_MAILSHRP.EXE;4 >-SYSTEM-F-PROTINSTALL, protected images must be installed > >I have seen this once before and I think I asked about it. I was told it >probably was caused by the time used by the watchdog procedure in resetting >and checking the MX processes Yes, it can do it. I don't know why it was happening over and over for you, unless it kept finding agents that needed to be restarted? Hunter ------ Hunter Goatley, Process Software Corporation (TCPware) http://www.wku.edu/www/madgoat/hunter.html ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Thu, 14 Nov 1996 11:23:41 CST Sender: owner-mx-list@wku.edu From: dwing@tgv.com ("Dan Wing") Subject: Re: UCX4.1 (Not Decodeing MIME attachment" Date: 14 Nov 1996 16:53:59 GMT Message-ID: <56fir7$e2b@cronkite.cisco.com> Reply-To: MX-List@MadGoat.com To: MX-List@WKUVX1.WKU.EDU In article <56fe2v$3ar@ipgate.hartford.edu>, SYSTEM@UHAVAX.HARTFORD.EDU (SYSTEM MANAGER) writes: Also be sure you've got MX setup to put all the headers at the top of your messages: $ RUN MX_EXE:MCP MCP> SHOW LOCAL LOCAL agent settings: DECnet delivery retry interval: 0 00:30:00.00 Maximum number of retries: 96 Accounting disabled. Multiple VMS Mail From: addresses allowed. Local delivery errors are not CC'ed to local Postmaster. Delivery to MultiNet MM allowed. Top headers: FROM,SENDER,TO,RESENT_TO,CC,RESENT_CC,BCC,RESENT_BCC,MESSAGE_ID, RESENT_MESSAGE_ID,IN_REPLY_TO,REFERENCES,KEYWORDS,SUBJECT, ENCRYPTED,DATE,REPLY_TO,RECEIVED,RESENT_REPLY_TO,RESENT_FROM, RESENT_SENDER,RESENT_DATE,RETURN_PATH,OTHER Bottom headers: (none) especially make sure that OTHER is listed in the "Top headers". If it isn't, you should fix it with SET LOCAL commands, then do a SAVE, then do a RESET/CLUSTER LOCAL. Then send a new MIME-encoded message to yourself and see if your POP client can now decode it. If it still can't, send another MIME-encoded message to yourself, go into VMSmail and do an EXTRACT of it to a local file and post it to this list *without* doing any editing of the extracted file. If the headers look okay to VMSmail the problem is in your POP3 server or its configuration. -Dan Wing dwing@cisco.com ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Thu, 14 Nov 1996 17:56:53 CST Sender: owner-mx-list@wku.edu From: dwing@tgv.com ("Dan Wing") Subject: Re: UCX4.1 (Not Decodeing MIME attachment" Date: 14 Nov 1996 23:38:09 GMT Message-ID: <56gah1$a8g@cronkite.cisco.com> Reply-To: MX-List@MadGoat.com To: MX-List@WKUVX1.WKU.EDU In article <56g38a$6pk@ipgate.hartford.edu>, SYSTEM@UHAVAX.HARTFORD.EDU (SYSTEM MANAGER) writes: > Here is what the file looks like in VMS Mail after being sent to the MX 4.1 > SMTP server. When accessed via UCX 4.1's POP server - the file is simply > downloaded (looks a lot like below) without decoding: > > > From: SMTP%"kelley@uhavax.hartford.edu" 14-NOV-1996 16:26:19.69 > To: SMTP%"kelley@uhavax.hartford.edu" > CC: > Subj: > > Return-Path: > Received: from cdpc01 (ccpc-10.cc.hartford.edu) by uhavax.hartford.edu (MX V4.1 > VAX) with SMTP; Thu, 14 Nov 1996 16:26:10 EDT > Message-ID: <1.5.4.32.19961114212633.002ce30c@uhavax.hartford.edu> > X-Sender: kelley@uhavax.hartford.edu (Unverified) > X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.4 (32) > MIME-Version: 1.0 > Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="=====================_848024793==_" > Date: Thu, 14 Nov 1996 16:26:33 -0500 > To: kelley@uhavax.hartford.edu > From: Dave Kelley > Subject: > X-Attachments: C:\EUDORA\ADDENDUM.EXE; > > --=====================_848024793==_ > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" [...] Looks good to me (possibly missing a Content-Transfer-Encoding header, but I believe that is optional - I'd have to check the RFC). Are your VMSmail headers being sent over to your POP3 client, too?? -Dan Wing dwing@cisco.com cisco Systems, Inc. ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Fri, 15 Nov 1996 06:11:31 CST Sender: owner-mx-list@wku.edu Date: Fri, 15 Nov 1996 12:10:03 +0100 From: Csg0070@Queens-Belfast.AC.UK Reply-To: MX-List@MadGoat.com To: mx-list@wkuvx1.wku.edu Message-ID: <009AB676.653AF5C0.2@v2.qub.ac.uk> Subject: QP in outgoing messages? I tried this on vmsnet.mail.mx, but no replies! Since v4.1 (I think), MX recodes MIME quoted-printable in INCOMING messages to true 8-bit characters, which is great. Unfortunately, I am still unable to include 8-bit characters in OUTGOING messages - in particular, I can't echo a bit of the message I'm replying to if that contains an 8-bit character. Any message I send containing an 8-bit character is bounced back to me by our mail system (VMS-Mail plus MX) - after it has passed through MX unchanged, I suppose. The question: are there any plans to have MX recode OUTGOING messages containing 8-bit characters to either quoted-printable or to base64, and add the appropriate MIME headers? I know there are mailers on other platforms which do this, choosing quoted-printable if the density of 8-bit characters is below around 30%, and choosing base64 otherwise. Thanks, Ciara/n O/ Duibhi/n (see why I need to send 8-bit chars?!!) ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Fri, 15 Nov 1996 09:29:38 CST Sender: owner-mx-list@wku.edu Date: Fri, 15 Nov 1996 10:29:27 EST From: "Dick Desroches, ACC Systems Manager" Reply-To: MX-List@MadGoat.com To: MX-LIST@LISTS.WKU.EDU Message-ID: <009AB668.57C4A480.19@woods.uml.edu> Subject: Listserver sending errors to everyone Recently a problem began with the MLF software. When a message to a member of a list bounces (usually due to lack of disk space) the error messages goes to ALL MEMBERS of the list and not just to the owner of (or errors-to) the list. This creates a terrible situation (it is a CRITICAL problem) in which the list tries to send the message once again to the bad user which of course bounces and sends the message back to all members of the list which bounces again and so on ad infinitum until nearly everyone on the list is out of disk space. Why is this happening? Shown below is the entry in MCP for a list which is currently having this problem. How do I stop it??? BYW, we use DEC MailWorks and NOT VMS mail. Thanks, Dick Desroches ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Fri, 15 Nov 1996 11:43:33 CST Sender: owner-mx-list@wku.edu From: dwing@tgv.com ("Dan Wing") Subject: Re: Listserver sending errors to everyone Date: 15 Nov 1996 17:21:24 GMT Message-ID: <56i8qk$pod@cronkite.cisco.com> Reply-To: MX-List@MadGoat.com To: MX-List@WKUVX1.WKU.EDU In article <009AB668.57C4A480.19@woods.uml.edu>, "Dick Desroches, ACC Systems Manager" writes: > Recently a problem began with the MLF software. When a message to a member of > a list bounces (usually due to lack of disk space) the error messages goes to > ALL MEMBERS of the list and not just to the owner of (or errors-to) the list. > > This creates a terrible situation (it is a CRITICAL problem) in which the list > tries to send the message once again to the bad user which of course bounces > and sends the message back to all members of the list which bounces again and > so on ad infinitum until nearly everyone on the list is out of disk space. > > Why is this happening? Shown below is the entry in MCP for a list which is > currently having this problem. > > How do I stop it??? > > BYW, we use DEC MailWorks and NOT VMS mail. It is well understood which headers of a message are supposed to be used for bounces -- the MAIL FROM: header (which is usually displayed as the "Return-Path:" header when you see the message). Nothing else. I'll bet the DEC MailWorks mailer is violating this rule. A copy of the headers for one of the mail messages that was later incorrectly bounced back to the list would be useful, as well as the output from "MCP> SHOW LIST listname". -Dan Wing dwing@cisco.com cisco Systems, Inc. ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Fri, 15 Nov 1996 12:05:02 CST Sender: owner-mx-list@wku.edu Date: Fri, 15 Nov 1996 13:03:04 EST From: "Jonathan E. Hardis" Reply-To: MX-List@MadGoat.com To: MX-List@MadGoat.com CC: dwing@cisco.com, hardis@garnet.nist.gov Message-ID: <009AB67D.CD629C00.3@garnet.nist.gov> Subject: Re: Listserver sending errors to everyone > Return-Path: > Errors-To: owner-mx-list@wku.edu > Sender: owner-mx-list@wku.edu > From: dwing@tgv.com ("Dan Wing") > It is well understood which headers of a message are supposed to be > used for bounces -- the MAIL FROM: header (which is usually displayed > as the "Return-Path:" header when you see the message). Nothing else. What about "Errors-To" ? - Jonathan ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Fri, 15 Nov 1996 12:47:01 CST Sender: owner-mx-list@wku.edu Date: Fri, 15 Nov 1996 10:43:17 -0800 From: DWING@TGV.COM (Dan Wing) Reply-To: MX-List@MadGoat.com To: hardis@garnet.nist.gov CC: MX-LIST@MADGOAT.COM Message-ID: <961115104317.202f02a6@tgv.com> Subject: Re: Listserver sending errors to everyone >> It is well understood which headers of a message are supposed to be >> used for bounces -- the MAIL FROM: header (which is usually displayed >> as the "Return-Path:" header when you see the message). Nothing else. > > What about "Errors-To" ? It is only mentioned as 'proposed' in RFC1035 and isn't a standard -- it was proposed, I believe, because many mailers were misimplemented and used addresses other than MAIL FROM for errors. If present, it would be used instead of MAIL FROM:. For mailing lists, MX sets Errors-To to the same as the MAIL FROM for mailers that might prefer Errors-To (controllable with /ERRORS_TO). -dan ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Mon, 18 Nov 1996 03:20:38 CST Sender: owner-mx-list@wku.edu Subject: Re: QP in outgoing messages? Message-ID: From: levitte@lp.se (Richard Levitte - VMS Whacker) Reply-To: MX-List@MadGoat.com Date: 18 Nov 1996 08:47:53 GMT To: MX-List@WKUVX1.WKU.EDU In article <009AB676.653AF5C0.2@v2.qub.ac.uk> Csg0070@Queens-Belfast.AC.UK writes: Unfortunately, I am still unable to include 8-bit characters in OUTGOING messages - in particular, I can't echo a bit of the message I'm replying to if that contains an 8-bit character. Any message I send containing an 8-bit character is bounced back to me by our mail system (VMS-Mail plus MX) - after it has passed through MX unchanged, I suppose. I doubt it's your system that does this. Where did the bounce message come from? I'm using MX with UCX since way back, and never had a problem. Except for this other site that refused to accept messages with 8-bit chars in them. A nice letter to the postmaster of that site changed things, however. -- R Levitte, Levitte Programming; Spannvägen 38, I; S-161 43 Bromma; SWEDEN Tel: +46-8-26 52 47; No fax right now PGP key fingerprint = A6 96 C0 34 3A 96 AA 6C B0 D5 9A DF D2 E9 9C 65 Check http://www.lp.se/~levitte for my public key. bastard@bofh.se ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Mon, 18 Nov 1996 04:32:00 CST Sender: owner-mx-list@wku.edu Date: Mon, 18 Nov 1996 02:31:38 PST From: "Henry W. Miller" Reply-To: MX-List@MadGoat.com To: MX-List@MadGoat.com CC: henrym@sacto.mp.usbr.gov Message-ID: <009AB881.172DCCEC.15@sacto.mp.usbr.gov> Subject: Re: QP in outgoing messages? > From: MX%"MX-List@MadGoat.com" 18-NOV-1996 01:30:40.75 > Subj: Re: QP in outgoing messages? > In article <009AB676.653AF5C0.2@v2.qub.ac.uk> Csg0070@Queens-Belfast.AC.UK writes: > > Unfortunately, I am still unable to include 8-bit characters in > OUTGOING messages - in particular, I can't echo a bit of the message > I'm replying to if that contains an 8-bit character. Any message > I send containing an 8-bit character is bounced back to me by our > mail system (VMS-Mail plus MX) - after it has passed through MX > unchanged, I suppose. > > I doubt it's your system that does this. Where did the bounce message > come from? I'm using MX with UCX since way back, and never had a problem. > Except for this other site that refused to accept messages with 8-bit > chars in them. A nice letter to the postmaster of that site changed > things, however. > > -- > R Levitte, Levitte Programming; Spannvägen 38, I; S-161 43 Bromma; SWEDEN > Tel: +46-8-26 52 47; No fax right now > PGP key fingerprint = A6 96 C0 34 3A 96 AA 6C B0 D5 9A DF D2 E9 9C 65 > Check http://www.lp.se/~levitte for my public key. bastard@bofh.se > -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- I get bounced mail messages from Queens-Belfast.AC.UK all the time for 8 bit characters. In one of my lists hosted by MX, people use the degree symbol quite often. -HWM ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Mon, 18 Nov 1996 06:33:00 CST Sender: owner-mx-list@wku.edu Date: Mon, 18 Nov 1996 06:32:54 CST From: Hunter Goatley Reply-To: MX-List@MadGoat.com To: MX-List@MadGoat.com Message-ID: <009AB8A2.CB4FF0E9.3@ALPHA.WKU.EDU> Subject: Re: QP in outgoing messages? "Henry W. Miller" writes: > > I get bounced mail messages from Queens-Belfast.AC.UK all the It's a small world---they're about the only site that my mailing lists reach that bounce back messages with 8-bit characters. >time for 8 bit characters. In one of my lists hosted by MX, people use >the degree symbol quite often. > To answer the original post, yes, doing Quoted-Printable for outgoing messages is on the to-do list. Probably the main reason I haven't done it yet is that I haven't figured out a how best to implement it so that you don't have messages with long lines getting QPed and then going to sites that don't handle QP messages. In other words, when PMDF first started doing it, I got sick and tired of receiving QP messages for seemingly no reason, simply because it was the default action on the PMDF side. Hence the support for *decoding* incoming messages---it bugged me enough that I added it. Which is not to say it'll never be implemented---just that I haven't made the time for it yet. Hunter ------ Hunter Goatley, Process Software Corporation (TCPware) http://www.wku.edu/www/madgoat/hunter.html ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Mon, 18 Nov 1996 07:05:46 CST Sender: owner-mx-list@wku.edu Date: Mon, 18 Nov 1996 05:05:17 PST From: "Henry W. Miller" Reply-To: MX-List@MadGoat.com To: MX-List@MadGoat.com CC: henrym@sacto.mp.usbr.gov Message-ID: <009AB896.8DF5022C.12@sacto.mp.usbr.gov> Subject: Re: QP in outgoing messages? > From: MX%"MX-List@MadGoat.com" 18-NOV-1996 04:38:24.82 > Subj: Re: QP in outgoing messages? Hunter, > "Henry W. Miller" writes: > > > > I get bounced mail messages from Queens-Belfast.AC.UK all the > > It's a small world---they're about the only site that my mailing lists (after all...) (Sorry, I just felt like breaking into song...) > reach that bounce back messages with 8-bit characters. > > >time for 8 bit characters. In one of my lists hosted by MX, people use > >the degree symbol quite often. > > > To answer the original post, yes, doing Quoted-Printable for outgoing > messages is on the to-do list. Probably the main reason I haven't > done it yet is that I haven't figured out a how best to implement it > so that you don't have messages with long lines getting QPed and then > going to sites that don't handle QP messages. > > In other words, when PMDF first started doing it, I got sick and tired > of receiving QP messages for seemingly no reason, simply because it > was the default action on the PMDF side. Hence the support for > *decoding* incoming messages---it bugged me enough that I added it. > > Which is not to say it'll never be implemented---just that I haven't > made the time for it yet. > Showing my ignorance of recent SMTP and mail RFC's, but isn't there a way to just quote those troublesome chararacters in-line as they pop-up? > Hunter > ------ > Hunter Goatley, Process Software Corporation (TCPware) > http://www.wku.edu/www/madgoat/hunter.html -HWM ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Mon, 18 Nov 1996 07:12:37 CST Sender: owner-mx-list@wku.edu Date: Mon, 18 Nov 1996 07:12:32 CST From: Hunter Goatley Reply-To: MX-List@MadGoat.com To: MX-List@MadGoat.com Message-ID: <009AB8A8.546C49BD.9@ALPHA.WKU.EDU> Subject: Re: QP in outgoing messages? "Henry W. Miller" writes: > >> It's a small world---they're about the only site that my mailing lists > > (after all...) (Sorry, I just felt like breaking into song...) > I thought the same thing, but *I* resisted the horrible urge!! 8-) > Showing my ignorance of recent SMTP and mail RFC's, but isn't >there a way to just quote those troublesome chararacters in-line as they >pop-up? > Unless I'm missing something too, no, there's not. You have to go full MIME and either QP it or base64-encode (and wouldn't *that* be pretty for outgoing mail to people without base64-aware mailers, like VMS). Now, there is an RFC for encoding eight-bit headers, but that's an ESMTP thing that I haven't had time for either. Someday.... Hunter ------ Hunter Goatley, Process Software Corporation (TCPware) http://www.wku.edu/www/madgoat/hunter.html ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Mon, 18 Nov 1996 09:22:41 CST Sender: owner-mx-list@wku.edu Date: Mon, 18 Nov 1996 10:21:36 EST From: "Jonathan E. Hardis" Reply-To: MX-List@MadGoat.com To: MX-List@MadGoat.com CC: hardis@garnet.nist.gov Message-ID: <009AB8C2.BDFD47A0.6@garnet.nist.gov> Subject: Re: QP in outgoing messages? Another data point for this discussion... One of my list subscribers has an 8-bit character in his address -- the comment part, not the user@host part. Everything works fine until another of my subscribers does a REVIEW. It's undeliverable because of the 8-bit character, and bounces back to me. - Jonathan P.S. -- Short of a SET CONCEAL, is there an easy way to edit the entry without the subscriber knowing about it (i.e., SIGNOFF + SUBSCRIBE)? ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Mon, 18 Nov 1996 10:07:29 CST Sender: owner-mx-list@wku.edu Date: Mon, 18 Nov 1996 08:07:11 PST From: "Henry W. Miller" Reply-To: MX-List@MadGoat.com To: MX-List@MadGoat.com CC: henrym@sacto.mp.usbr.gov Message-ID: <009AB8AF.F775A38C.12@sacto.mp.usbr.gov> Subject: Re: QP in outgoing messages? > From: MX%"MX-List@MadGoat.com" 18-NOV-1996 07:25:39.68 > Subj: Re: QP in outgoing messages? > Another data point for this discussion... > > One of my list subscribers has an 8-bit character in his address -- the > comment part, not the user@host part. Everything works fine until another > of my subscribers does a REVIEW. It's undeliverable because of the 8-bit > character, and bounces back to me. > > - Jonathan > > P.S. -- Short of a SET CONCEAL, is there an easy way to edit the entry > without the subscriber knowing about it (i.e., SIGNOFF + SUBSCRIBE)? Tell me about it! I had a mell of a hess a couple of weeks ago due to the "From:" headers from Swedish/Norwegian/Finnish subscribers and the "funny characters" (for lack of the more scientific term at this hour in the morning) causing a variety of bounces, not just from Queens. Fortunately, it settled down by itself after a couple of days... -HWM ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Mon, 18 Nov 1996 10:28:56 CST Sender: owner-mx-list@wku.edu Date: Mon, 18 Nov 1996 17:27:28 +0100 (MET) From: PASZTOR Miklos Reply-To: MX-List@MadGoat.com To: Csg0070@Queens-Belfast.AC.UK CC: mx-list@wkuvx1.wku.edu Subject: Re: QP in outgoing messages? Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII On Fri, 15 Nov 1996 Csg0070@Queens-Belfast.AC.UK wrote: [...] > The question: are there any plans to have MX recode OUTGOING messages > containing 8-bit characters to either quoted-printable or to base64, > and add the appropriate MIME headers? I know there are mailers on other > platforms which do this, choosing quoted-printable if the density of > 8-bit characters is below around 30%, and choosing base64 otherwise. > I suggest to solve the problem on the mail client level. PINE has been ported to VMS, and it does QP outgoing messages (among other things). You can download it e.g. from ftp.spc.edu. Regards, Miklos ==================================================================== Pa'sztor Miklo's | E-mail: pasztor@sztaki.hu MTA SZTAKI/ASZI Budapest 1132 V. Hugo u. 18-22 | Tel: (36)-(1)-149-75-32 Institute for Computation and Automation, Hungarian Academy of Sciences ==================================================================== ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Mon, 18 Nov 1996 11:28:31 CST Sender: owner-mx-list@wku.edu Subject: Re: QP in outgoing messages? Message-ID: From: levitte@lp.se (Richard Levitte - VMS Whacker) Reply-To: MX-List@MadGoat.com Date: 18 Nov 1996 17:13:43 GMT To: MX-List@WKUVX1.WKU.EDU In article <009AB896.8DF5022C.12@sacto.mp.usbr.gov> "Henry W. Miller" writes: Hunter, Hmm, how come I seldom see Hunters messages in vmsnet.mail.mx these days? Showing my ignorance of recent SMTP and mail RFC's, but isn't there a way to just quote those troublesome chararacters in-line as they pop-up? Aint that simple. If you use quoted-printable as transport encoding, you need the following extra headers: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable So, you either assume that all letters need to be QP'd, and then convert the characters that need it, or you have to read the message first to check if QP is needed. The first case (assuming) wouldn't be such a problem if it wasn't for one thing: lines must never be longer than 73 characters, including the linefeed, as I recall. If some line is longer than 73 characters, you must split it, and add an equal sign at the point of the split. This means that the following line (indented by two spaces): This is a line with a little more than 73 characters. Why don't you check it out for yourself? will be converted to: This is a line with a little more than 73 characters. Why don't you ch= eck it out for yourself? I guess it was that kind of splitting that bothered Hunter. The second case is workable (I know that Stellan Lagerström has done a hack for this), but you need to read the mail file twice, and you probably need extra storage to do that. The other alternative would be to support ESMTP, as many sites that complain about 8-bitness in regular SMTP messages often support ESMTP as well. On the other hand, SMTP sites bouncing messages with 8-bit characters are quite few these days, as it's more of a pain than it's worth bothering about, and a nice letter to the postmaster of the offended host usually helps a lot (it's often just an option they forgot to check). -- R Levitte, Levitte Programming; Spannvägen 38, I; S-161 43 Bromma; SWEDEN Tel: +46-8-26 52 47; No fax right now PGP key fingerprint = A6 96 C0 34 3A 96 AA 6C B0 D5 9A DF D2 E9 9C 65 Check http://www.lp.se/~levitte for my public key. bastard@bofh.se ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Mon, 18 Nov 1996 11:32:26 CST Sender: owner-mx-list@wku.edu Date: Mon, 18 Nov 1996 11:32:20 CST From: Hunter Goatley Reply-To: MX-List@MadGoat.com To: MX-List@MadGoat.com Message-ID: <009AB8CC.9FEF7251.15@ALPHA.WKU.EDU> Subject: Re: QP in outgoing messages? "Jonathan E. Hardis" writes: > >P.S. -- Short of a SET CONCEAL, is there an easy way to edit the entry >without the subscriber knowing about it (i.e., SIGNOFF + SUBSCRIBE)? Just send it to the list -request address and do: REMOVE/NONOTIFY ADD/NONOTIFY "The string you want" If you're careful and just *replace* characters (and don't add them), you can also just EDIT the .MAILING_LIST file. I'd recommend you REVIEW it afterward in MCP to be sure everything's OK.... Hunter ------ Hunter Goatley, Process Software Corporation (TCPware) http://www.wku.edu/www/madgoat/hunter.html ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Mon, 18 Nov 1996 11:34:56 CST Sender: owner-mx-list@wku.edu Date: Mon, 18 Nov 1996 11:34:45 CST From: Hunter Goatley Reply-To: MX-List@MadGoat.com To: MX-List@MadGoat.com Message-ID: <009AB8CC.F6235133.21@ALPHA.WKU.EDU> Subject: Re: QP in outgoing messages? levitte@lp.se (Richard Levitte - VMS Whacker) writes: > >In article <009AB896.8DF5022C.12@sacto.mp.usbr.gov> "Henry W. Miller" writes: > > Hunter, > >Hmm, how come I seldom see Hunters messages in vmsnet.mail.mx these days? > There seem to be occasional problems with the gateway. I'll try to ask Mark Berryman about it. >The first case (assuming) wouldn't be such a problem if it wasn't for one >thing: lines must never be longer than 73 characters, including the >linefeed, as I recall. If some line is longer than 73 characters, you >must split it, and add an equal sign at the point of the split. This >means that the following line (indented by two spaces): [...] >I guess it was that kind of splitting that bothered Hunter. > Yep. Hunter ------ Hunter Goatley, Process Software Corporation (TCPware) http://www.wku.edu/www/madgoat/hunter.html ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Mon, 18 Nov 1996 15:29:46 CST Sender: owner-mx-list@wku.edu Date: Mon, 18 Nov 1996 21:20:50 +0100 From: Csg0070@Queens-Belfast.AC.UK Reply-To: MX-List@MadGoat.com To: mx-list@wkuvx1.wku.edu Message-ID: <009AB91E.D61E2BE0.2@v2.qub.ac.uk> Subject: Re: QP in outgoing messages Thanks for the discussion on this. Hunter Goatley said: > "Henry W. Miller" writes: >> I get bounced mail messages from Queens-Belfast.AC.UK all the >>time for 8 bit characters. > It's a small world---they're about the only site that my mailing lists > reach that bounce back messages with 8-bit characters. You send messages containing unrecoded 8-bit characters in the message body and QUB bounces them? I never suspected that could happen here to *incoming* messages. I have received messages which looked as though they travelled as unrecoded 8-bit and I assumed *all* such messages were coming through. Seemingly not so. Hunter Goatley said: > To answer the original post, yes, doing Quoted-Printable for outgoing > messages is on the to-do list. Probably the main reason I haven't > done it yet is that I haven't figured out a how best to implement it > so that you don't have messages with long lines getting QPed and then > going to sites that don't handle QP messages. > In other words, when PMDF first started doing it, I got sick and tired > of receiving QP messages for seemingly no reason, simply because it > was the default action on the PMDF side. Hence the support for > *decoding* incoming messages---it bugged me enough that I added it. > Which is not to say it'll never be implemented---just that I haven't > made the time for it yet. OK, thanks for this info. Our Vax may not have a very long life expectancy, so I don't think it will live to see the implementation, but others may be interested in it. Pine might provide you with a model for tackling the question of overlong lines. Hunter Goatley said: > ... You have to go > full MIME and either QP it or base64-encode (and wouldn't *that* be > pretty for outgoing mail to people without base64-aware mailers, like > VMS). Well of course we already get the occasional *incoming* base64 message. Just have to extract it to file and run a decoding program (I do this on a PC, not on VMS). "Jonathan E. Hardis" wrote: > One of my list subscribers has an 8-bit character in his address -- the > comment part, not the user@host part. Everything works fine until another > of my subscribers does a REVIEW. It's undeliverable because of the 8-bit > character, and bounces back to me. and "Henry W. Miller" added: > ... I had a mell of a hess a couple of weeks ago > due to the "From:" headers from Swedish/Norwegian/Finnish subscribers > and the "funny characters" (for lack of the more scientific term at this > hour in the morning) causing a variety of bounces, not just from Queens. > Fortunately, it settled down by itself after a couple of days... Jonathan's difficulty would be solved if MX recoded outgoing messages to QP. But even without that, sites ought to accept messages containing raw 8-bit characters in the message body (whatever they do with the characters after that). Henry's problem with the headers is a more difficult one. As Hunter said: > Now, there is an RFC for encoding eight-bit headers, but that's an > ESMTP thing that I haven't had time for either. Someday.... but it's rare enough to find a mailer which does this, even amongst mailers which happily encode/decode 8-bit characters in the message body. However again non-awareness on the part of the receiving mailer should not make the message bounce, just display an almighty mess in the header fields. Non- awareness on the part of the sending mailer presumably generates a wrong address, and hence a bounce. Miklos Pasztor wrote, in reply to my original query about getting MX to recode outgoing messages to QP: > I suggest to solve the problem on the mail client level. > PINE has been ported to VMS, and it does QP outgoing messages (among other > things). You can download it e.g. from ftp.spc.edu. This is very useful to know, especially as it's not mentioned in the FAQ at www.cs.ruu.nl/wais/html/na-dir/mail/mime-faq/part2.html where Pine is described as for Unix and DOS. I'll certainly look into it, but tonight ftp.spc.edu is playing hard to get. But abandoning VMSMail means a major spring clean of my VMSMail folders :-(. I might be tempted to defer that onerous task as long as possible and stick with VMSMail until the men in the white coats come to carry the Vax away. Thanks again to all, Ciarn Duibhn. ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Tue, 19 Nov 1996 07:14:33 CST Sender: owner-mx-list@wku.edu Date: Tue, 19 Nov 1996 13:13:12 GMT From: Andy Harper - KCL Systems manager Reply-To: MX-List@MadGoat.com To: MX-List@MadGoat.com CC: A.HARPER@kcl.ac.uk Message-ID: <009AB9A3.E12FCAE0.307@alder.cc.kcl.ac.uk> Subject: Re: QP in outgoing messages > : > It's a small world---they're about the only site that my mailing lists > reach that bounce back messages with 8-bit characters. > : Just a small point really, but why are people so concerned by messages which break the standards? I.E. RFC821 states that no 8 bit characters should be sent. Basically, if you want to send 8-bit - do it the proper way and encode them; that's what MIME is for. Don't force every other site in the world to break the rules just so you can mail them. I'm sure there's a good reason for the original 'no 8-bit data' rule (perhaps to do with the use of mark/space parity bits in serial transmission over phone lines?) so, unless the original reason is no longer valid, we should continue to obey it. Having said that, in my experience, pretty much all sites break the rules, as we discovered here when we tightened up the standards conformance on mailers We got a huge flood of complaints about not being able to send UK pound signs (not a 7-bit character in DEC's extended ascii set so invalid over strict RFC821). Should we not therefore be concentrating our efforts on converting those that break the rule, or on getting the rule changed? Andy Harper Kings College London ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Tue, 19 Nov 1996 07:28:30 CST Sender: owner-mx-list@wku.edu Date: Tue, 19 Nov 1996 08:19:43 -0500 (EST) From: "Harrington B. Laufman" Reply-To: MX-List@MadGoat.com Subject: Re: QP in outgoing messages? (fwd) To: mx-list@madgoat.com Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Jonathan writes: >P.S. -- Short of a SET CONCEAL, is there an easy way to edit the entry >without the subscriber knowing about it (i.e., SIGNOFF + SUBSCRIBE)? As the owner of the list, or from a system user account, I use remove /nonotify mylist "MisSpleed Name" add /nonotify mylist "Correct Name" Will that achieve what you want? Regards, Harrington ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Tue, 19 Nov 1996 08:31:13 CST Sender: owner-mx-list@wku.edu Message-ID: <199611191431.JAA20750@cliff.cris.com> From: "Fr. John-Mark Gilhousen" Reply-To: MX-List@MadGoat.com To: Subject: Mystery Rejecton Date: Tue, 19 Nov 1996 09:30:51 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Our list rejected a message, and for the life of me, after reviewing its header and the poster's subscription entry, I cannot figure out why. Can anyone tell me how to fix it so this subscriber can post? John-Mark Gilhousen Administrator, Old Catholic Discussion List (OLDCTH-L@dragon.com) > ------------------------------ Rejected message ------------------------------ > Received: from unlgrad1.unl.edu by dragon.com (MX V4.2 VAX) with SMTP; Sun, 17 Nov 1996 01:08:11 EST > Received: by unlgrad1.unl.edu (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA24424; Sun, 17 Nov 96 00:07:38 CST > From: killefer@unlgrad1.unl.edu (susan killefer) > Message-ID: <9611170607.AA24424@unlgrad1.unl.edu> > Subject: infant baptism > To: OLDCATH-L@dragon.com > Date: Sun, 17 Nov 1996 00:07:37 -0600 (CST) > X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL20] > Content-Type: text > Content-Length: 569 Subscriber's Entry on "REVIEW": susan killefer (NOCASE) ----- The Very Rev. John-Mark Gilhousen | Cantate Domino canticum novum, Mission Parish of St. Camillus | laus ejus in Ecclesia sanctorum. 497 Cumberland Av, PO Bx 8627 | Sing a new canticle to the Lord, Portland ME 04104-8627 | May the assembly of His saints e-mail: jgilhous@cris.com | - Ps. 149 (Graduale, Christus Rex) web: www.cris.com/~jgilhous | ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Tue, 19 Nov 1996 08:53:37 CST Sender: owner-mx-list@wku.edu From: system@spotimage.fr Reply-To: MX-List@MadGoat.com Date: Tue, 19 Nov 1996 14:53:27 +0000 To: MX-List@MadGoat.com Message-ID: <009AB9B1.E251C280.27@spotimage.fr> Subject: Re: QP in outgoing messages >Just a small point really, but why are people so concerned by messages which >break the standards? I.E. RFC821 states that no 8 bit characters should be >sent. Basically, if you want to send 8-bit - do it the proper way and encode >them; that's what MIME is for. Don't force every other site in the world to >break the rules just so you can mail them. I'm sure there's a good reason for >the original 'no 8-bit data' rule (perhaps to do with the use of mark/space >parity bits in serial transmission over phone lines?) so, unless the original >reason is no longer valid, we should continue to obey it. RFC 1521 MIME September 1993 5. The Content-Transfer-Encoding Header Field Many Content-Types which could usefully be transported via email are represented, in their "natural" format, as 8-bit character or binary data. Such data cannot be transmitted over some transport protocols. For example, RFC 821 restricts mail messages to 7-bit US-ASCII data with lines no longer than 1000 characters. It is necessary, therefore, to define a standard mechanism for re- encoding such data into a 7-bit short-line format. This document specifies that such encodings will be indicated by a new "Content- Transfer-Encoding" header field. The Content-Transfer-Encoding field is used to indicate the type of transformation that has been used in order to represent the body in an acceptable manner for transport. Unlike Content-Types, a proliferation of Content-Transfer-Encoding values is undesirable and unnecessary. However, establishing only a single Content-Transfer-Encoding mechanism does not seem possible. There is a tradeoff between the desire for a compact and efficient encoding of largely-binary data and the desire for a readable encoding of data that is mostly, but not entirely, 7-bit data. For this reason, at least two encoding mechanisms are necessary: a "readable" encoding and a "dense" encoding. The Content-Transfer-Encoding field is designed to specify an invertible mapping between the "native" representation of a type of data and a representation that can be readily exchanged using 7 bit mail transport protocols, such as those defined by RFC 821 (SMTP). This field has not been defined by any previous standard. The field's value is a single token specifying the type of encoding, as enumerated below. Formally: encoding := "Content-Transfer-Encoding" ":" mechanism mechanism := "7bit" ; case-insensitive / "quoted-printable" / "base64" / "8bit" / "binary" / x-token These values are not case sensitive. That is, Base64 and BASE64 and bAsE64 are all equivalent. An encoding type of 7BIT requires that the body is already in a seven-bit mail-ready representation. This is the default value -- that is, "Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT" is assumed if the Content-Transfer-Encoding header field is not present. The values "8bit", "7bit", and "binary" all mean that NO encoding has been performed. However, they are potentially useful as indications of the kind of data contained in the object, and therefore of the kind of encoding that might need to be performed for transmission in a given transport system. In particular: "7bit" means that the data is all represented as short lines of US-ASCII data. "8bit" means that the lines are short, but there may be non-ASCII characters (octets with the high-order bit set). "Binary" means that not only may non-ASCII characters be present, but also that the lines are not necessarily short enough for SMTP transport. The difference between "8bit" (or any other conceivable bit-width token) and the "binary" token is that "binary" does not require adherence to any limits on line length or to the SMTP CRLF semantics, while the bit-width tokens do require such adherence. If the body contains data in any bit-width other than 7-bit, the appropriate bit-width Content-Transfer-Encoding token must be used (e.g., "8bit" for unencoded 8 bit wide data). If the body contains binary data, the "binary" Content-Transfer-Encoding token must be used. NOTE: The distinction between the Content-Transfer-Encoding values of "binary", "8bit", etc. may seem unimportant, in that all of them really mean "none" -- that is, there has been no encoding of the data for transport. However, clear labeling will be of enormous value to gateways between future mail transport systems with differing capabilities in transporting data that do not meet the restrictions of RFC 821 transport. Mail transport for unencoded 8-bit data is defined in RFC-1426 [RFC-1426]. As of the publication of this document, there are no standardized Internet mail transports for which it is legitimate to include unencoded binary data in mail bodies. Thus there are no circumstances in which the "binary" Content-Transfer-Encoding is actually legal on the Internet. However, in the event that binary mail transport becomes a reality in Internet mail, or when this document is used in conjunction with any other binary-capable transport mechanism, binary bodies should be labeled as such using this mechanism. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Pierre BRU | voice: +33 (0)5 62 19 40 64 System & Network Mgr. | fax: +33 (0)5 62 19 40 56 Spot Image | 5 rue des satellites | F-31030 Toulouse cedex | mailto:system@spotimage.fr ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Tue, 19 Nov 1996 09:53:19 CST Sender: owner-mx-list@wku.edu Date: Tue, 19 Nov 1996 10:52:20 EST From: "Jonathan E. Hardis" Reply-To: MX-List@MadGoat.com To: MX-List@MadGoat.com CC: jgilhous@cris.com, hardis@garnet.nist.gov Message-ID: <009AB990.33F403E0.19@garnet.nist.gov> Subject: RE: Mystery Rejecton > Our list rejected a message, and for the life of me, after reviewing its > header and the poster's subscription entry, I cannot figure out why. There may be something odd like a non-printable character accidently entered in her user name. Presuming that this is a persistant problem, enable debugging and ask her to send another message to the list. - Jonathan ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Tue, 19 Nov 1996 19:58:24 CST Sender: owner-mx-list@wku.edu Date: Tue, 19 Nov 1996 19:58:51 CDT From: J Kmoch Reply-To: MX-List@MadGoat.com To: MX-LIST@MADGOAT.COM CC: kmoch@whscdp.whs.edu Message-ID: <009AB9DC.8C67D640.6@whscdp.whs.edu> Subject: listserv software and case sensitivity I set up a list and established it with case sensitivity on. I subscribed a group of people to it. Now several of the people have tried to send to the list and receive an error message indicating they're not subscribed. About a week ago, I modified the list to turn off case sensitivity. I fixed one person's subscription by removing him then adding him again. I noted that that person's address in a review command has (no case) appended to his address. It seems then when I modified the list to turn off case sensitivity, then all subscribers should be affected. Yet it seems that the subscribers who I added early on still are subject to case sensitivity. Did I miss something? It seems as though the listserv software should ignore case sensitivity in all cases. Can you help me fix this? I'm using MX 4.2 on a VAX Thanks Joe -- Joe Kmoch Washington High School kmoch@whscdp.whs.edu 2525 N. Sherman Blvd (414) 449-2765 (office) Milwaukee, WI 53210 (414) 444-9250 (fax) (414) 444-9760 (gen school phone) ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Tue, 19 Nov 1996 20:11:53 CST Sender: owner-mx-list@wku.edu Date: Tue, 19 Nov 1996 20:11:48 CST From: Hunter Goatley Reply-To: MX-List@MadGoat.com To: MX-List@MadGoat.com Message-ID: <009AB9DE.5BC848B0.21@ALPHA.WKU.EDU> Subject: RE: listserv software and case sensitivity J Kmoch writes: > >It seems then when I modified the list to turn off case sensitivity, then all >subscribers should be affected. Yet it seems that the subscribers who I added >early on still are subject to case sensitivity. > That's the way I implemented it. At the time it made sense, though I no longer think it does. Basically, the /NOCASE flag on the list just causes the NOCASE flag to be set for each subsequent subscriber. >Did I miss something? It seems as though the listserv software should ignore >case sensitivity in all cases. Can you help me fix this? > You'll need to REMOVE/NONOTIFY and ADD/NONOTIFY all your subscribers to get that for all of them. This may be fixed in MX V4.3. Hunter ------ Hunter Goatley, Process Software Corporation (TCPware) http://www.wku.edu/www/madgoat/hunter.html ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Thu, 21 Nov 1996 10:52:51 CST Sender: owner-mx-list@wku.edu Date: Thu, 21 Nov 1996 11:52:39 EST From: "Dick Desroches, Director, Acad. Info. Systems" Reply-To: MX-List@MadGoat.com To: MX-LIST@LISTS.WKU.EDU Message-ID: <009ABB2A.F57A6220.3339@woods.uml.edu> Subject: LOCAL process keeps quitting My local process keeps quitting. I turned on debugging and the mx_local_log.log file shows nothing helpful. The last message says: ASPEN$ type mx_local_log.log 21-NOV-1996 09:55:39.44 Processing queue entry number 85 And the previous 10 or 12 messages all look like this: ASPEN$ type mx_local_log.log;-1 21-NOV-1996 09:55:38.38 Processing queue entry number 2300 21-NOV-1996 09:55:38.61 Checking local name: BURDETTM 21-NOV-1996 09:55:38.79 LOCAL_USER: User BURDETTM definitely local. 21-NOV-1996 09:55:38.79 This is a regular delivery. 21-NOV-1996 09:55:38.84 DELIVER: mime_headers = 9 21-NOV-1996 09:55:38.84 DELIVER: fdlstr = "" 21-NOV-1996 09:55:38.86 DELIVER: Using MX%"wor97isg54@mecn.mass.edu" as VMS MAIL From address. 21-NOV-1996 09:55:38.87 DELIVER: Using MX%"burdettm@woods.uml.edu" as VMS MAIL To address. 21-NOV-1996 09:55:38.87 DELIVER: Using as VMS MAIL CC address. 21-NOV-1996 09:55:38.87 DELIVER: Using "" as subject. 21-NOV-1996 09:55:39.15 DELIVER: Status=007E81FA from MAIL$ routines 21-NOV-1996 09:55:39.15 DELIVER: --LOGLINK or OPENOUT failure; will retry. 21-NOV-1996 09:55:39.25 Setting up for retry at 21-NOV-1996 10:25:39.25 .04 DELIVER: Delivering to BURDETTM 21-NOV-1996 09:55:39 I thought maybe something was wrong with message #85 so I deleted it. But a few minutes later the same thing happens again with another message number. Can you help? This is a crisis for us - I have 3000 messages in the queue going no where and lots of very angry users. Please DO NOT REPLY to this address since we are not receiving incoming mail. Send your response to desroches@libvax.uml.edu instead. Thanks, Dick Desroches Thanks, Dick Desroches =============================================================================== Dick Desroches, Director | Phone : 508-934-2682 Academic Information Systems | Fax : 508-934-3001 University of Massachusetts Lowell | Email : DESROCHES@WOODS.UML.EDU Lowell, MA 01854 | =============================================================================== ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Thu, 21 Nov 1996 11:00:39 CST Sender: owner-mx-list@wku.edu Date: Thu, 21 Nov 1996 11:00:32 CST From: Hunter Goatley Reply-To: MX-List@MadGoat.com To: MX-List@MadGoat.com CC: DESROCHES@LIBVAX.UML.EDU Message-ID: <009ABB23.ADD45577.23@ALPHA.WKU.EDU> Subject: RE: LOCAL process keeps quitting "Dick Desroches, Director, Acad. Info. Systems" writes: > >My local process keeps quitting. I turned on debugging and the >mx_local_log.log file shows nothing helpful. The last message says: > >ASPEN$ type mx_local_log.log >21-NOV-1996 09:55:39.44 Processing queue entry number 85 > >And the previous 10 or 12 messages all look like this: > [...] >21-NOV-1996 09:55:39.15 DELIVER: Status=007E81FA from MAIL$ routines >21-NOV-1996 09:55:39.15 DELIVER: --LOGLINK or OPENOUT failure; will >retry. >21-NOV-1996 09:55:39.25 Setting up for retry at 21-NOV-1996 10:25:39.25 >.04 DELIVER: Delivering to BURDETTM MX is getting an "error opening mail file" error for user BURDETTM. Have you tried sending mail to that user without it going through MX? My guess is that he's deleted his mail subdirectory or something that's preventing mail from sending to him. Without seeing the exit status for the process, I think the repeated retries may be exhausted the memory quota for MX Local (the infamous callable mail memory leak). Hunter ------ Hunter Goatley, Process Software Corporation (TCPware) http://www.wku.edu/www/madgoat/hunter.html ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Fri, 22 Nov 1996 01:37:54 CST Sender: owner-mx-list@wku.edu Date: Fri, 22 Nov 1996 09:37:52 EST From: sysnaj@DALE.hadassah.org.il Reply-To: MX-List@MadGoat.com To: MX-LIST@WKUVX1.WKU.EDU Message-ID: <009ABBE1.4BD00240.11@dale.hadassah.org.il> Subject: Problems with DNS lookup Hello. We upgraded our VAX cluster to VMS 6.2 . After the upgrade all was ok (seemed to :) ), but 5 days latter all outgoing SMTP mail failed on DNS lookup error. During these 5 days, no changes were made in software. - Our cluster has 3 VAXen, but only one is involved with e-mail. - The "failure" started the day we had CPU problems and swapped 2 Vaxen, one of which was the e-mail machine. The machines are identical, but for the ethernet card. - We receive ALL mail - Usually 1 message goes out on SMTP, but all subsequent messages get a DNS error. - I have tried from 1 to 4 SMTP threads. No difference. - we use VAX/VMS 6.2 - TGV MULTINET 3.5A (I had B, but regressed, just in case) - NETLIB As we are a hospital, and our traffic is rather heavy, I will gladly accept ANY help or suggestions. Thank you Najman Kahana System Manager Hadassah University Hospital Jerusalem, Israel Najman@hadassah.org.il ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Fri, 22 Nov 1996 03:59:02 CST Sender: owner-mx-list@wku.edu Date: Fri, 22 Nov 1996 10:58:42 +0100 From: Alberto Meregalli (DIF) Reply-To: MX-List@MadGoat.com To: MX-List@MadGoat.com CC: meregalli@cesi.it Message-ID: <009ABBEC.96A08816.13@cesi.it> Subject: RE: Problems with DNS lookup > > - We receive ALL mail > - Usually 1 message goes out on SMTP, but all subsequent messages >get a DNS error. Could you specify something more on the error? Also, do you get errors from the DNS indipendently from the mail? > - TGV MULTINET 3.5A (I had B, but regressed, just in case) (There _is_ a problem in BIND for that version: just yesterday TGV (CISCO) put out an ECO for that problem!) --------------------------------------------------------------------------- Alberto Meregalli, DIF tel. +39 2 2125 249 CESI, Centro Elettrotecnico Sperimentale Italiano fax +39 2 2125 520 Via Rubattino, 54 - I 20134 Milano E-mail: meregalli@cesi.it ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Fri, 22 Nov 1996 04:51:51 CST Sender: owner-mx-list@wku.edu Date: Fri, 22 Nov 1996 04:51:43 CST From: Hunter Goatley Reply-To: MX-List@MadGoat.com To: MX-List@MadGoat.com Message-ID: <009ABBB9.521F7D88.10@ALPHA.WKU.EDU> Subject: RE: Problems with DNS lookup Alberto Meregalli (DIF) writes: > >> - We receive ALL mail >> - Usually 1 message goes out on SMTP, but all subsequent messages >>get a DNS error. > >Could you specify something more on the error? Also, do you get errors >from the DNS indipendently from the mail? > >> - TGV MULTINET 3.5A (I had B, but regressed, just in case) > >(There _is_ a problem in BIND for that version: just yesterday TGV >(CISCO) put out an ECO for that problem!) > You should also pick up the current NETLIB, which fixes a bug exercised by MultiNet V3.5 and higher. It's on ftp.wku.edu in [.MADGOAT]NETLIB020.ZIP (NETLIB V2.0J). Hunter ------ Hunter Goatley, Process Software Corporation (TCPware) http://www.wku.edu/www/madgoat/hunter.html ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Fri, 22 Nov 1996 07:48:41 CST Sender: owner-mx-list@wku.edu Date: Fri, 22 Nov 1996 15:47:10 EST From: sysnaj@DALE.hadassah.org.il Reply-To: MX-List@MadGoat.com To: MX-LIST@MADGOAT.COM Message-ID: <009ABC14.E2A56920.17@dale.hadassah.org.il> Subject: re:smtp DNS problem hello. Subj: RE: Problems with DNS lookup > >> - We receive ALL mail >> - Usually 1 message goes out on SMTP, but all subsequent messages >>get a DNS error. > >Could you specify something more on the error? Also, do you get errors >from the DNS indipendently from the mail? > >> - TGV MULTINET 3.5A (I had B, but regressed, just in case) > >(There _is_ a problem in BIND for that version: just yesterday TGV >(CISCO) put out an ECO for that problem!) **************************** ok. thanks. I assume I pick up the ECO at the TGV site. Since I haven't done that before, is there an ECO number ? Also, should I stay with 2.5A, upgrade to B, or it doesn'tr make any difference? > You should also pick up the current NETLIB, which fixes a bug exercised by MultiNet V3.5 and higher. It's on ftp.wku.edu in [.MADGOAT]NETLIB020.ZIP (NETLIB V2.0J). **************************** I have tried to do this, bit, I get the Impression, that when I use VMSINSTAL, it brings its own netlib, which is older. Is there a way of preventing this ? Can I, after the instal, just copy the newer Netlib (share and _multinet) to sys$share without relinking MX ? I forgot to mention, but I am using MX401. ****************** for the example you asked for: (nslookup finds this address correctly) 22-NOV-1996 15:32:50.49 Processing queue entry number 227 on node TURKEY 22-NOV-1996 15:32:50.55 Recipient: , route=umdnj.edu 22-NOV-1996 15:32:50.55 SMTP_SEND: looking up host name umdnj.edu 22-NOV-1996 15:32:50.56 SMTP_SEND: DNS_MXLOOK status is 00000001 22-NOV-1996 15:32:51.68 SMTP_SEND: Failed, sts=00000870 22-NOV-1996 15:32:51.69 SMTP send failed, sts=0C278024, sts2=00000870 22-NOV-1996 15:32:51.69 Recipient status=0C278024 for 22-NOV-1996 15:32:52.02 1 rcpts need retry, next try 22-NOV-1996 16:02:52.02 22-NOV-1996 15:32:52.06 *** End of processing pass *** Thank You Najman ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Fri, 22 Nov 1996 08:01:54 CST Sender: owner-mx-list@wku.edu Date: Fri, 22 Nov 1996 06:01:39 PST From: javier@kjsl.com Reply-To: MX-List@MadGoat.com To: MX-List@MadGoat.com Message-ID: <009ABBC3.17180CF0.21@kjsl.com> Subject: RE: Problems with DNS lookup > - TGV MULTINET 3.5A (I had B, but regressed, just in case) > - NETLIB What version of NETLIB? You should have 2.0J, there were problems with MN 3.5 and previous versions of NETLIB. -- Javier Henderson javier@kjsl.com ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Fri, 22 Nov 1996 08:06:12 CST Sender: owner-mx-list@wku.edu Date: Fri, 22 Nov 1996 09:05:52 EST From: Brian Reed Reply-To: MX-List@MadGoat.com To: MX-List@MadGoat.com Message-ID: <009ABBDC.D38D4A71.1@cbict3.cb.lucent.com> Subject: Local path definitions If you have another name for your machine (say a virtual host name) I know you can define a local path so MX treats it as a local delivery. I had someone ask if there were another way to do this. Such as a way for MX to automatically detect that the address and the machine it's on are the same, and thus handle it as a local delivery. If not, I'd still be curious as to the logic of how one would determine if a hostname is being served by the current machine. Or, am I missing the boat on how you determine the ultimate destination for a message? I know you can have MX records, but as far as I know, these indicate a path to take for delivery, and don't dictate its final destination. Thanks, Brian D. Reed Lucent Technologies Columbus Works bdreed1@lucent.com 614-860-6218 ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Fri, 22 Nov 1996 08:36:48 CST Sender: owner-mx-list@wku.edu Date: Fri, 22 Nov 1996 09:30:52 EST From: "Brian Tillman, x8425" Reply-To: MX-List@MadGoat.com To: MX-List@MadGoat.com CC: sysnaj@DALE.hadassah.org.il Message-ID: <009ABBE0.51590D20.10@swdev.si.com> Subject: RE: re:smtp DNS problem Najman (sysnaj@DALE.hadassah.org.il) writes: >I have tried to do this, bit, I get the Impression, that when I use VMSINSTAL, >it brings its own netlib, which is older. Is there a way of preventing this ? >Can I, after the instal, just copy the newer Netlib (share and _multinet) to >sys$share without relinking MX ? NETLIB can be installed independently of MX. Also, if NETLIB is already installed and you install a later version of MX (you should... MX is now at V4.2. Its performance is better than V4.0, I believe), the installation will present you with the option of not installing the NETLIB that comes with the kit. However, MX V4.2 includes NETLIB V2.0J, so why not simply get MX V4.2 (ftp://ftp.madgoat.com/mx/mx042/mx042.zip) and install both it and the NETLIB that comes with it? -----------------------------+-------------------------------- Brian Tillman | Internet: tillman_brian@si.com Smiths Industries, Inc. | tillman@swdev.si.com 4141 Eastern Ave., MS239 | Hey, I said this stuff myself. Grand Rapids, MI 49518-8727 | My company has no part in it. -----------------------------+-------------------------------- ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Fri, 22 Nov 1996 08:48:54 CST Sender: owner-mx-list@wku.edu Date: Fri, 22 Nov 1996 08:48:42 CST From: Hunter Goatley Reply-To: MX-List@MadGoat.com To: MX-List@MadGoat.com CC: SYSNAJ@DALE.HADASSAH.ORG.IL Message-ID: <009ABBDA.6D86A189.3@ALPHA.WKU.EDU> Subject: RE: re:smtp DNS problem sysnaj@DALE.hadassah.org.il writes: > >> >>You should also pick up the current NETLIB, which fixes a bug >>exercised by MultiNet V3.5 and higher. It's on ftp.wku.edu in >>[.MADGOAT]NETLIB020.ZIP (NETLIB V2.0J). >> >>**************************** > >I have tried to do this, bit, I get the Impression, that when I use VMSINSTAL, >it brings its own netlib, which is older. Is there a way of preventing this ? >Can I, after the instal, just copy the newer Netlib (share and _multinet) to >sys$share without relinking MX ? > >I forgot to mention, but I am using MX401. > Just use VMSINSTAL to install the new NETLIB. If you reinstall MX, it will try to install an older NETLIB, but getting the new NETLIB and installing it with VMSINSTAL will solve the problem. Hunter ------ Hunter Goatley, Process Software Corporation (TCPware) http://www.wku.edu/www/madgoat/hunter.html ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Fri, 22 Nov 1996 12:46:24 CST Sender: owner-mx-list@wku.edu From: dwing@tgv.com ("Dan Wing") Subject: Re: Problems with DNS lookup Date: 22 Nov 1996 18:09:23 GMT Message-ID: <574q8j$fhn@cronkite.cisco.com> Reply-To: MX-List@MadGoat.com To: MX-List@WKUVX1.WKU.EDU In article <009ABBE1.4BD00240.11@dale.hadassah.org.il>, sysnaj@DALE.hadassah.org.il writes: > We upgraded our VAX cluster to VMS 6.2 . > After the upgrade all was ok (seemed to :) ), but 5 days latter > all outgoing SMTP mail failed on DNS lookup error. > During these 5 days, no changes were made in software. > > - Our cluster has 3 VAXen, but only one is involved with e-mail. > - The "failure" started the day we had CPU problems and swapped 2 > Vaxen, one of which was the e-mail machine. The machines are identical, but > for the ethernet card. > - We receive ALL mail > - Usually 1 message goes out on SMTP, but all subsequent messages > get a DNS error. What is the DNS error? What is your DNS configuration? Are you behind a firewall of any kind? Does a subsequent MX retry succeed? Can you do manual NSLOOKUPs and do they work? > - I have tried from 1 to 4 SMTP threads. No difference. SMTP Server doesn't do much with DNS except get the name of the host that is connecting to you. > - we use VAX/VMS 6.2 > - TGV MULTINET 3.5A (I had B, but regressed, just in case) > - NETLIB > > As we are a hospital, and our traffic is rather heavy, I will gladly accept > ANY help or suggestions. You may want to consider logging a call with TGV/Cisco technical support, multinet-vms@tgv.com or 408 457 5201. We also have a technical support group in Brussels that is familiar with MultiNet so there shouldn't a timezone problem. This doesn't sound like an MX problem. -Dan Wing dwing@cisco.com cisco Systems, Inc. ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Fri, 22 Nov 1996 12:57:28 CST Sender: owner-mx-list@wku.edu Date: Fri, 22 Nov 1996 13:54:22 EST From: "Jonathan E. Hardis" Reply-To: MX-List@MadGoat.com To: MX-List@MadGoat.com CC: reed@cbict3.cb.lucent.com, hardis@garnet.nist.gov Message-ID: <009ABC05.20EE7D80.4@garnet.nist.gov> Subject: RE: Local path definitions > If you have another name for your machine (say a virtual host name) > I know you can define a local path so MX treats it as a local > delivery. I had someone ask if there were another way to do this. > Such as a way for MX to automatically detect that the address and > the machine it's on are the same, and thus handle it as a local delivery. Short answer: no. Ask yourself, "detect" using what base of information as a reference? Currently the reference is the PATH LOCAL definitions. What else would you use? A particular name server? > If not, I'd still be curious as to the logic of how one would > determine if a hostname is being served by the current machine. Let's suppose you wanted MX to adapt dynamically to changes in the DNS. That is, if you change the name of your host in the name server, you want MX to automatically accept the mail. One way to do that would be to modify the SMTP delivery agent. It has to do a name -> IP address translation anyway, so in theory it could recognize, "Hey, that's me." In order to avoid the mail loop that's sure to continue, this agent could be modified to rewrite the address to one guarenteed to be LOCAL on the next pass, such as MX_NODE_NAME or [my.IP.addr.info]. As an alternative, you could use the SITE agent to do more-or-less the same thing. Using the same general scheme that I use for moderated lists: 1) Rewrite all addresses that end in some magic token to remove that token. 2) Rewrite all other addresses (those that don't match the above) to end in a magic token that will cause PATH SITE to be followed. 3) Within the SITE command file, have a small program of your own determine whether the address should be LOCAL (using whatever criteria you want to), and if it is, edit it to an address that you know MX will take to be LOCAL. Then, enter this message back in the queue so that MX can continue processing it. - Jonathan ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Fri, 22 Nov 1996 14:41:23 CST Sender: owner-mx-list@wku.edu Date: Fri, 22 Nov 1996 15:40:30 EST From: Brian Reed Reply-To: MX-List@MadGoat.com To: MX-List@MadGoat.com Message-ID: <009ABC13.F4B58E9D.7@cbict3.cb.lucent.com> Subject: RE: Local path definitions >> If you have another name for your machine (say a virtual host name) >> I know you can define a local path so MX treats it as a local >> delivery. I had someone ask if there were another way to do this. >> Such as a way for MX to automatically detect that the address and >> the machine it's on are the same, and thus handle it as a local delivery. >Ask yourself, "detect" using what base of information as a reference? >Currently the reference is the PATH LOCAL definitions. What else would you >use? A particular name server? Well, that's why I was asking. The guy that asked me is currently running TCPware SMTP, and hasn't had to do anything for it to deliver mail to the real host. >Let's suppose you wanted MX to adapt dynamically to changes in the DNS. I'm not even sure if that's the place for it. I was kind of wondering about somehow determining if the IP address for the mail address is on the machine MX is running on. I think the only real way would be to look at the ARP entries for the 2 IP addresses and see if they are the same. That may break if using more than one interface, or say having a cluster where more than one machine can accept mail. In this case you could define a local host for each machine/interface. Then compare the ARP entry for the hostname in the mail message to each of these to determine if it's local. Just some thoughts. Some of these more detailed inner workings are beyond what I know right now, which is why I'm asking. Brian D. Reed Lucent Technologies Columbus Works bdreed1@lucent.com 614-860-6218 ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Fri, 22 Nov 1996 15:13:53 CST Sender: owner-mx-list@wku.edu Date: Fri, 22 Nov 1996 15:13:31 CST From: Hunter Goatley Reply-To: MX-List@MadGoat.com To: MX-List@MadGoat.com Message-ID: <009ABC10.2F4DB061.1@ALPHA.WKU.EDU> Subject: RE: Local path definitions Brian Reed writes: > >Well, that's why I was asking. The guy that asked me is currently >running TCPware SMTP, and hasn't had to do anything for it to >deliver mail to the real host. > TCPware's SMTP looks up all the MX records for its host to determine which names are LOCAL deliveries. Of course, it does no routing, so it's not nearly as flexible as MX, but that's why it checks out the system's MX records. Hunter ------ Hunter Goatley, Process Software Corporation (TCPware) http://www.wku.edu/www/madgoat/hunter.html ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Fri, 22 Nov 1996 15:34:12 CST Sender: owner-mx-list@wku.edu Date: Fri, 22 Nov 1996 15:33:45 CST From: Tom Chamberlain / 269GB Bartlesville / (918)661-9744 Reply-To: MX-List@MadGoat.com To: MX-List@MadGoat.com Message-ID: <009ABC13.030E2460.1@athena.ppco.com> Subject: Does MX use DNS MX records? I'm running MX 4.2 with NETLIB 2.0J on VAXVMS 6.2 with Attachmate (Wollongong) Pathway Version 2.5. My company's internal network is behind a firewall, so hostnames and IP addresses aren't generally known by Internet users. There are, however, wildcard MX records for our domain (ppco.com) in the DNS, and the address of our firewall and mail gateway machines are known: $ nslookup -q=any twctst.ppco.com Server: zoo.backbone.ou.edu Address: 129.15.1.10 twctst.ppco.com preference = 10, mail exchanger = ppco.com twctst.ppco.com preference = 5, mail exchanger = relay.ppco.com ppco.com nameserver = nic.near.net ppco.com nameserver = knock.ser.bbnplanet.net ppco.com nameserver = nic3.barrnet.net ppco.com internet address = 138.32.15.1 relay.ppco.com internet address = 204.167.250.1 nic.near.net internet address = 192.52.71.4 knock.ser.bbnplanet.net internet address = 192.239.16.129 nic3.barrnet.net internet address = 131.119.245.6 I recently had occasion to move one of our VAXen at a university, where it's no longer behind a firewall and its name and IP address are available to the Internet: $ nslookup -q=any rlhvax.chem.uoknor.edu Server: zoo.backbone.ou.edu Address: 129.15.1.10 rlhvax.chem.uoknor.edu internet address = 129.15.12.90 rlhvax.chem.uoknor.edu CPU = PPP OS = REMOTE rlhvax.chem.uoknor.edu preference = 0, mail exchanger = mailspool.uoknor.edu mailspool.uoknor.edu internet address = 129.15.2.9 The paths I initially set up on rlhvax.chem.uoknor.edu were: Domain-to-path mappings: Domain="rlhvax.chem.uoknor.edu", Path=Local Domain="[129.15.12.90]", Path=Local Domain="[127.0.0.1]", Path=Local Domain="localhost", Path=Local Domain="rlhvax", Path=Local Domain="*.uoknor.edu", Path=SMTP Domain="*", Path=SMTP I found that I was unable to send mail from rlhvax.chem.uoknor.edu to machines in ppco.com until I set up a route to our mail gateway, i.e., MCP> define path "*.ppco.com" smtp /route="relay.ppco.com" Or (and this probably better), I can establish a route through the university's mail gateway: MCP> define path "*" smtp/route="mailspool.uoknor.edu" I defined the MX_SMTP_DEBUG logical name. With no path to a mail gateway defined, a typical MX_SMTP_LOG.LOG file looks like this: 22-NOV-1996 13:03:53.83 Processing queue entry number 3 on node RLHVAX 22-NOV-1996 13:03:54.06 Recipient: , route=athena.ppco.com 22-NOV-1996 13:03:54.07 SMTP_SEND: looking up host name athena.ppco.com 22-NOV-1996 13:03:54.08 SMTP_SEND: DNS_MXLOOK status is 00000E4A 22-NOV-1996 13:03:54.23 SMTP_SEND: Failed, sts=00000870 22-NOV-1996 13:03:54.24 SMTP send failed, sts=0C278024, sts2=00000870 22-NOV-1996 13:03:54.24 Recipient status=0C278024 for 22-NOV-1996 13:03:54.72 1 rcpts need retry, next try 22-NOV-1996 13:33:54.72 22-NOV-1996 13:03:54.74 *** End of processing pass *** After using MCP to define a path to the university's mail gateway, the message goes through: 22-NOV-1996 13:04:15.11 Processing queue entry number 2 on node RLHVAX 22-NOV-1996 13:04:15.41 Recipient: , route=mailspool.uoknor.edu 22-NOV-1996 13:04:15.42 SMTP_SEND: looking up host name mailspool.uoknor.edu 22-NOV-1996 13:04:15.42 SMTP_SEND: DNS_MXLOOK status is 00000E4A 22-NOV-1996 13:04:15.50 SMTP_SEND: Attempting to start session with mailspool.uoknor.edu [129.15.2.9] 22-NOV-1996 13:04:15.51 SMTP_SEND: Connected 22-NOV-1996 13:04:16.70 SMTP_SEND: Rcvd: 220 cliff.ou.edu (Mail*Hub TurboSendmail) Service ready 22-NOV-1996 13:04:16.83 SMTP_SEND: Sent: HELO rlhvax.chem.uoknor.edu 22-NOV-1996 13:04:17.16 SMTP_SEND: Rcvd: 250 cliff.ou.edu G'day rlhvax.chem.uoknor.edu! 22-NOV-1996 13:04:17.16 SMTP_SEND: Sent: MAIL FROM: [snip] Should MX (the mailer) use the DNS's "MX" record pointing to relay.ppco.com or does it only use "A" records? Or am I doing something wrong? Thanks for any help! Tom ================================================================================ Tom Chamberlain Phone: (918) 661-9744 Phillips Petroleum Company FAX: (918) 661-1910 269 Geoscience Building email: twc@ppco.com Bartlesville, OK 74004 ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Mon, 25 Nov 1996 18:48:07 CST Sender: owner-mx-list@wku.edu Date: Mon, 25 Nov 1996 19:46:54 EST From: "Charles T. Smith, Jr." Reply-To: MX-List@MadGoat.com To: mx-list@wku.edu Message-ID: <009ABE91.DFBECD80.238@dragon.com> Subject: Mix of MX MLF and LISTSERV? Is it possible, on the same cluster, to have lists served by both MX's MLF and the Lsoft's LISTSERV (in this case, Listserv Lite). ?? ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Tue, 26 Nov 1996 08:06:25 CST Sender: owner-mx-list@wku.edu Date: Tue, 26 Nov 1996 08:51:44 EST From: "Brian Tillman, x8425" Reply-To: MX-List@MadGoat.com To: MX-List@MadGoat.com CC: cts@dragon.com Message-ID: <009ABEFF.83B11700.27@swdev.si.com> Subject: RE: Mix of MX MLF and LISTSERV? Charles T. Smith, Jr. (cts@dragon.com) writes: >Is it possible, on the same cluster, to have lists served by both MX's >MLF and the Lsoft's LISTSERV (in this case, Listserv Lite)?? Can't imagine why not, as long as you don't try to run them on the same node. Sending to LISTSERV@nodea.dragon.com would get LISTSERV and sending to MXSERVER@nodeb.dragon.com would get MX. -----------------------------+-------------------------------- Brian Tillman | Internet: tillman_brian@si.com Smiths Industries, Inc. | tillman@swdev.si.com 4141 Eastern Ave., MS239 | Hey, I said this stuff myself. Grand Rapids, MI 49518-8727 | My company has no part in it. -----------------------------+-------------------------------- ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Tue, 26 Nov 1996 09:28:07 CST Sender: owner-mx-list@wku.edu Date: Tue, 26 Nov 1996 10:26:42 EST From: "Charles T. Smith, Jr." Reply-To: MX-List@MadGoat.com To: MX-List@MadGoat.com Message-ID: <009ABF0C.C79E63C0.22@dragon.com> Subject: RE: Mix of MX MLF and LISTSERV? > Can't imagine why not, as long as you don't try to run them on the same node. > Sending to LISTSERV@nodea.dragon.com would get LISTSERV and sending to > MXSERVER@nodeb.dragon.com would get MX. Ok; that makes sense; how to the actual lists (eg, the post-to address) get sorted out? ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Tue, 26 Nov 1996 09:39:16 CST Sender: owner-mx-list@wku.edu Message-ID: <2.2.32.19961126154016.006927b0@celia.kjsl.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Tue, 26 Nov 1996 07:40:16 -0800 To: MX-List@MadGoat.com From: Javier Henderson Reply-To: MX-List@MadGoat.com Subject: RE: Mix of MX MLF and LISTSERV? At 08:51 AM 11/26/96 EST, you wrote: >Charles T. Smith, Jr. (cts@dragon.com) writes: > >>Is it possible, on the same cluster, to have lists served by both MX's >>MLF and the Lsoft's LISTSERV (in this case, Listserv Lite)?? We have something similar in one of our internal clusters here at TGV (well, Cisco now). We have MX running on one node, and PMDF on another, and our SMTP mailer on yet another. We have some internal lists under PMDF and MX, and some external ones under MX. ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Tue, 26 Nov 1996 13:01:51 CST Sender: owner-mx-list@wku.edu Date: Tue, 26 Nov 1996 13:01:44 CST From: Hunter Goatley Reply-To: MX-List@MadGoat.com To: MX-List@MadGoat.com Message-ID: <009ABF22.7055C782.1@ALPHA.WKU.EDU> Subject: RE: Mix of MX MLF and LISTSERV? "Charles T. Smith, Jr." writes: > >> Can't imagine why not, as long as you don't try to run them on the same node. >> Sending to LISTSERV@nodea.dragon.com would get LISTSERV and sending to >> MXSERVER@nodeb.dragon.com would get MX. > >Ok; that makes sense; how to the actual lists (eg, the post-to address) >get sorted out? > The MX Router checks to see if the list address is an MLF list. If it's not, it checks to see if it's a LISTSERV list. The messages are delivered to the appropriate agent at that time. Hunter ------ Hunter Goatley, Process Software Corporation (TCPware) http://www.wku.edu/www/madgoat/hunter.html ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Tue, 26 Nov 1996 15:31:58 CST Sender: owner-mx-list@wku.edu Date: Tue, 26 Nov 1996 16:20:54 -0400 (EDT) From: "Steven Bryan 644.3921" Reply-To: MX-List@MadGoat.com Subject: FYI - A Christmas gift request for the MX guys... To: MX-List CC: MARGARET THEIBERT , Bill Ticknor Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Dear Hunter and Matt, "All I want for Christmas is a small MX mod..."!!! Would it be possible to easily add a count of the list members to the front of the email returned for a "review" command? Or if you really wanted to churn code, maybe you could add a list of "custimization variables" akin to the ones for User Notification Messages with variables such as "total list members", "List (memo count) activity today", "new members this week", "removed members this week", etc... Or, is this already available thru a button I don't know how to turn on? Thanks for considering this! Steven Bryan Network Software Manager the State of Ohio Dept. of Administrative Services Ohio Data Network 1320 Arthur E. Adams Drive Columbus, Ohio 43221 614.644.3921 614.752.6108 (Fax) bryan@ohio.gov ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Wed, 27 Nov 1996 11:33:59 CST Sender: owner-mx-list@wku.edu Date: Wed, 27 Nov 1996 12:32:51 EST From: "Charles T. Smith, Jr." Reply-To: MX-List@MadGoat.com To: MX-List@MadGoat.com Message-ID: <009ABFE7.919431C0.196@dragon.com> Subject: RE: Mix of MX MLF and LISTSERV? >The MX Router checks to see if the list address is an MLF list. If >it's not, it checks to see if it's a LISTSERV list. The messages are >delivered to the appropriate agent at that time. Ok; it appears to be a restriction that the router process must be running on the same node(s) as are running the listserv process. Is this correct? ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Wed, 27 Nov 1996 13:42:55 CST Sender: owner-mx-list@wku.edu Message-ID: Date: Wed, 27 Nov 1996 11:39:27 -0800 From: Dan Sugalski Reply-To: MX-List@MadGoat.com To: mx-list@madgoat.com Subject: Ready SITE entries MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain I've got a bunch of entries in my queue hanging around in the READY state waiting to be delivered to "Recipient #1: , Route=DIGEST". These are mailing list entries waiting to get delivered for digest processing. This all was working OK until I installed OVMS 7.1FT2. Regular mailing list mail still goes out, but all the messages bound for the digest processor are sitting around. Needless to say, the digest hasn't gone out in a while, and my queue's starting to get kinda cluttered. This is MX 4.2, btw. Dan ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Wed, 27 Nov 1996 13:53:39 CST Sender: owner-mx-list@wku.edu Date: Wed, 27 Nov 1996 13:53:33 CST From: Hunter Goatley Reply-To: MX-List@MadGoat.com To: MX-List@MadGoat.com CC: SUGALSD@GW.LBCC.CC.OR.US Message-ID: <009ABFF2.D7FABC91.9@ALPHA.WKU.EDU> Subject: RE: Ready SITE entries Dan Sugalski writes: > > I've got a bunch of entries in my queue hanging around in the READY state >waiting to be delivered to "Recipient #1: , >Route=DIGEST". These are mailing list entries waiting to get delivered for digest >processing. > This all was working OK until I installed OVMS 7.1FT2. Regular mailing list >mail still goes out, but all the messages bound for the digest processor are sitting >around. Needless to say, the digest hasn't gone out in a while, and my queue's >starting to get kinda cluttered. > Sounds like your MX SITE agent isn't running (uses MCP STATUS to check for it). If it is running, try enabling debug for it: $ define/sys/exec mx_site_debug true Hunter ------ Hunter Goatley, Process Software Corporation (TCPware) http://www.wku.edu/www/madgoat/hunter.html ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Wed, 27 Nov 1996 14:22:28 CST Sender: owner-mx-list@wku.edu Message-ID: Date: Wed, 27 Nov 1996 12:18:52 -0800 From: Dan Sugalski Reply-To: MX-List@MadGoat.com To: MX-List@MadGoat.com Subject: RE: Ready SITE entries -Reply MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain >>> Hunter Goatley 11/27/96 11:53am >>> Sounds like your MX SITE agent isn't running (uses MCP STATUS to check for it). If it is running, try enabling debug for it: $ define/sys/exec mx_site_debug true <<<< Well, that's it. Any way to get the SITE agent back up short of rebooting or restarting MX? Dan ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Wed, 27 Nov 1996 16:58:49 CST Sender: owner-mx-list@wku.edu Date: Wed, 27 Nov 1996 17:57:28 EST From: "Jonathan E. Hardis" Reply-To: MX-List@MadGoat.com To: MX-List@MadGoat.com CC: SUGALSD@gw.lbcc.cc.or.us, hardis@garnet.nist.gov Message-ID: <009AC014.EB283240.5@garnet.nist.gov> Subject: RE: Ready SITE entries -Reply > Any way to get the SITE agent back up short of rebooting or restarting MX? $ @SYS$STARTUP:MX_STARTUP SITE ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Sat, 30 Nov 1996 20:56:21 CST Sender: owner-mx-list@wku.edu Date: Sat, 30 Nov 1996 19:56:10 MST From: Mark Tarka Reply-To: MX-List@MadGoat.com To: mx-list@wkuvx1.wku.edu Message-ID: <009AC280.FF4ED580.2@earth.oscs.montana.edu> Subject: MX mail jammed...why? Well, it's the holidays, staff is gone away and the campus is deserted (joy :-) However, mail is no longer being delivered to my account (I checked with a recent test, after a post to a mailing list failed to appear within a reasonable amount of time). Now, software should be able to be written that will scold a site for sending a noncompliant header/wrapper (a few "shit for brains" used to work, until someone killed that approach), and place the offending message in the "tank" until intervention by a human. Apparently that doesn't happen yet (people need jobs, the more human intervention required, the more jobs...yes?). Nevertheless...what is it that leads the periodic hang-ups in the mail system? A bit or two dropped due to line static caused by a solar flare, substandard/noisy connections, a train wreck in Peoria...are these the probable causes? I'm looking for a reason, and if that includes an explaination of conflicts in a cpu due to its architecture (not due to problems between software products)...I'd appreciate hearing about it in some detail; I wanna get over the "black-box" mentality associated with a large system being confronted by a simple user and learn to cope. Hope I've stated this clearly. Anxious, in Montana.