'Bout time I got this out.
Never really got anywhere. If we were sending the bootp over
our subnets, then I might be able to get RIS to work (see below).
Jim Surlow
------- Original Questions
Alpha managers,
We do a lot of DU installs, but we can't guarantee a DU machine
on each subnet - so we don't use RIS or DMU. We can guarantee
a unix host with bootpd & tftpd. With 3.2c, we
hacked the kernel on the CD (/vmunix) and inserted our own
script overwriting .profile. The vmunix would allow us to:
#1) boot over the net with bootp & tftp
#2) put / & /usr in RAM allowing us to partition the hard drive
and install the OS on the hard drive.
With 4.0a (& 4.0), the CD & kernel is different. The only way
that I saw of accomplishing #1 was to do a "doconfig -n". But,
the kernel generated wants to nfs mount / & /usr and bombs when
it can't (thus not accomplishing #2).
I'm assuming that it is trying to nfs mount from the
same host that provides the bootp & tftp. [Also, I think that it
is trying a DHCP rather than bootp & I don't know what else DEC's
DHCP (joind) might supply the client.
So, does anyone know if I can get the bootp kernel that I want,
or of another avenue ? (rather than -- one -- carting around the
CD or -- two -- hacking the latest 3.2 kernel to provide the RAM disk)
Thanks in advance,
Jim Surlow
UC Irvine
------- Addendum
Lance Berc (berc_at_pa.dec.com) had asked if I did a packet trace.
I did and there were other files that were required in the bootup.
I put the /etc/ files that are tftp'ed in my tftp directory
as well.
- -rwxr-xr-x 1 root users 15112 Nov 4 13:47 ddr.db*
- -rw-r--r-- 1 root users 152 Nov 4 13:48 dec_devsw_db
- -rwxr-xr-x 1 root users 2528 Nov 4 13:48 dec_hw_db*
- -rwxr-xr-x 1 root daemon 0 Nov 4 13:53 dec_hw_db.bak*
- -rwxr-xr-x 1 root users 0 Nov 4 13:48 dec_scsi_db*
- -rwxr-xr-x 1 root daemon 0 Nov 4 13:57 dec_scsi_db.bak*
- -rwxr-xr-x 1 root users 1920 Nov 4 13:30 gen_databases*
- -rwxr-xr-x 1 root users 24225 Nov 4 13:30 sysconfigtab*
------- Message 5
Marty Horowitz (mah_at_unx.dec.com) suggested that DU4.0b might help
when it is shipped.
------- Message 9
This is really, really cool!! Are you willing to share how you hacked
the kernel? I am really interested.
Andy
- --
Andy Sheaff - sheaff_at_eece.maine.edu
http://www.eece.maine.edu/Faculty/Sheaff.html
+++++++
We sucked the whole file into memory, and search for the .profile
and changed it the first several comment lines and made sure not
to change the size of the binary. But, since I can't find a source
that will work, it won't do you much good.
------- Message 11
Date: Mon, 11 Nov 1996 13:50:43 -0500
From: Sam Sarasin DTN 339-5413 <sarasin_at_cop.dec.com>
Message-Id: <9611111850.AA01151_at_yosemite.cop.dec.com>
To: jsurlow_at_hydra.acs.uci.edu
Subject: Re: [Q] bootp 4.0a kernel w/o RIS or DMU
> Alpha managers,
>
> We do a lot of DU installs, but we can't guarantee a DU machine
> on each subnet - so we don't use RIS or DMU. We can guarantee
> a unix host with bootpd & tftpd. With 3.2c, we
> hacked the kernel on the CD (/vmunix) and inserted our own
> script overwriting .profile. The vmunix would allow us to:
> #1) boot over the net with bootp & tftp
> #2) put / & /usr in RAM allowing us to partition the hard drive
> and install the OS on the hard drive.
>
Check out the release notes with 4.0a RIS has been changed to allow users to run
custom scripts BEFORE and AFTER the installation. In fact one of the sample scripts
shows how to create custom partitions before the installation is run. Your custom
files can be stored on the RIS server or on a floppy. I know this does not solve
you custom vmunix problem but it will allow you to partition your disk and do lots
of site specific stuff. Note also that RIS will support bootp style booting in 4.0a
but it uses the joind daemon inconjunction with /etc/bootptab file.
Sam Sarasin
------- Message 10
To: jsurlow_at_hydra.acs.uci.edu
cc: haymanr_at_icefog.sois.alaska.edu
Subject: Re: [Q] bootp 4.0a kernel w/o RIS or DMU
In-reply-to: Your message of "Tue, 05 Nov 96 22:21:33 PST."
<199611060621.WAA01148_at_ambient.acs.uci.edu>
Date: Wed, 06 Nov 96 07:57:59 -0900
You wrote:
|>We do a lot of DU installs, but we can't guarantee a DU machine
|>on each subnet - so we don't use RIS or DMU. We can guarantee
I'm curious as to this statement... I've used RIS across subnets just
fine back when I was running an older version of DU. Did this break
in recent versions?
RIS should still work across subnets, contrary to the documents you may
have seen. It has been some time since I did this, and I do recall that
it was implied not to work across subnets from the documentation Digital
published.
Randy M. Hayman
haymanr_at_icefog.alaska.edu
Here's an old message on this very subject:
From: stellr_at_smyrna.cc.vt.edu (Ray Stell)
Reply-To: stellr_at_smyrna.cc.vt.edu (Ray Stell)
Message-Id: <9407152049.AA00977_at_smyrna.cc.vt.edu>
Followup-To: poster
Subject: SUMMARY: ris server across subnets
To: alpha-osf-managers_at_ornl.gov (OSF/1 alpha managers)
Date: Fri, 15 Jul 94 16:49:06 EDT
X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.3 PL4]
I asked:
- --------
Does the osf ris server work across IP subnet addressing? I
remember the Ultrix version was reported to be broken on this
count. Can anyone confirm that they have seen it work? Did
it require patches?
The answer from the group is it depends on the router config
and two other workarounds are offered below:
tpb_at_zk3.dec.com:
- ----------------
We have two (2) RIS servers in the OSF/1 development group
that server all of our local subnets. I'm not sure exactly how many subnets
we have at this point, but I think it's on the order of a dozen. As far as
I know we've never had problems about IP subnet addressing, and as far as
I know (but I haven't checked for this) there haven't been any patches for
any of the releases so far for any problems -- that is, it should work OK
both in the current (V2.0) release as well as V1.2 or V1.3.
(Dr. Blinn filled in some details on a followup post, after I showed
him what the others were saying:
- --------------------------------------------------------------------
We use mostly Cisco routers, and I can't say whether other brands may have
limitations on what they will or will not forward. Likewise, there may be
some environments where people might be uncomfortable with forwarding all
the services that are needed to support OSF/1 RIS.
We configure our routers to forward the following services (as listed in the
/etc/services file, your router configuration syntax may vary):
bootps 67/udp
bootpc 68/udp
tftp 69/udp
and also
domain 53/udp nameserver # domain name server
but that's not necessarily related to RIS.
You do need both bootp and tftp to RIS a DEC OSF/1 system. Although it is
true that ULTRIX RIS was based on MOP, DEC OSF/1 RIS is not. However, if
you are brave and want to do firmware upgrades over the network (either from
an ULTRIX or OpenVMS host, which is documented and supported, or even from a
DEC OSF/1 host which is documented as unsupported but can be made to work by
pretty much following the ULTRIX instructions if you've got DECnet/OSI up on
your DEC OSF/1 system), then you want to route MOP as well.
Some of your respondents seemed to have a grasp on this, and some didn't.
The "Guide to Sharing Software on a Local Area Network" does say (in 2.2.2)
that the routers between subnets need to forward bootp messages. It should
probably also say you need to route tftp messages. There are other places
in the guide, notably in the section (5.2) on remote boot flow, that make it
clear you need both bootp and tftp. [These are the section numbers in the
V2.0 version of AA-PS3LB-TE and may differ from earlier versions.]
So, the bottom line is that if you want RIS between subnets, then you need
to pass both bootp (both flavors, I think) and tftp between the subnets. If
you can't do this (either because your routers are sub-functional or due to
some site-specific security policy), then you can't make RIS work between
the subnets.
rockwell_at_sco.dec.com:
- ---------------------
ULTRIX had a problem *booting* across subnets - the mop protocol
used to boot workstations is not routeable. But, loading layered
product software across subnets works under ULTRIX (using setld -l
ris_server:)
since this is all IP based.
DEC OSF/1 systems prefer to use bootp to perform initial loads with RIS.
The manual "Sharing Software on a Local Area Network" says that DEC
OSF/1
servers and clients must be on the same network or subnetwork
*unless the router connecting the networks or subnetworks can forward
bootp requests*. I haven't tried this, though one of my customers has
seen bootp requests passed through a router to DEC OSF/1 and it
successfully boots that device.
rhb_at_media.mit.edu:
- ------------------
The osf ris server uses bootp, which doesn't go across subnets
unless you have your network specially configured to do so.
Ultrix ris uses mop, which goes across subnets. In fact, I'm using
a ris server on ultrix 4.3, no patches (vanilla) serving osf
installs over subnets
barrym_at_sa-cgy.valmet.com:
- -------------------------
If I remember correctly, RIS uses TFTP to download the initial kernel.
The TFTP protocol, by definition, cannot deal with subnets.
SEB_at_LNS62.LNS.CORNELL.EDU:
- --------------------------
RIS across subnets certainly doesn't work for me. grump :-(
I allocated a single address on the same subnet as the server
just so I could do RIS operating system installations.
sorensen_at_banana.det.dec.com:
- ----------------------------
RIS does not use TCP/IP, it uses a Digital proprietary protocal called
MOP. Your bridges and/or routers must be capable of bridging or routing
MOP for what you want to work.
gk_at_gkws.edvz.tuwien.ac.at:
- --------------------------
Well, i managed to do it , but i had to patch the boot image
with a hex editor to put in a statement to set the right
subnet mask. Due to our local setup - the routers do not answer
RIP requests - i also had to put in a hardwired route for routed.
Feel free to contact me for further details...
==============================================================
Ray Stell stellr_at_smyrna.cc.vt.edu (703) 231-4109
Some people are born on third base and
go through life thinking they hit a triple. -Barry Switzer
Received on Wed Dec 11 1996 - 01:11:26 NZDT