Hello all,
Sorry its taken so long to summarise this but I was off with a cold and then
Xmas...
Anyway I received a number of replies to my original query, all included below.
The main points were that nobody really had a significant preference for a make
of tape drive. One user seemed quite concerned that I might be using something
not Certified by DEC. My feeling is that SCSI is SCSI is SCSI and if DEC
machines can't cope then DEC machines better change.
The difference between DDS-DC, DDS-2 and DDS-3 is the amount of compression
done and the size of tape used to allow this compression.
Thanks to all who responded so quickly:
Richard Rogers
George Guethlein
Simon Reavell
Sean O'Connell
Larry Tague
Alan Rollow
Walt Melton
Ed Bolson
I now have a HP C1599A DDS-2 drive that is working well. I did need to make an
entry in the cam_data.c file and rebuild my kernel as no existing driver had the
correct details. A couple of the flags were different. Interestingly the
paperwork that came with the drive gave the wrong data but the HP web site had
it right. A reboot and a MAKEDEV and all was well.
Once again the mailing list comes up trumps.
Bye
John
(Play Violin & Ride Bike - but not at the same time)
********************************************************************************
John Richards * email : john_at_zyqad.co.uk
Zyqad Ltd, *
Suite 25, The Business Park, *
Technology Drive, Beeston * tel : +44 115 922 0820
NOTTINGHAM. NG9 2ND. * fax : +44 115 967 8374
********************************************************************************
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To: alpha-osf-managers_at_ornl.gov
Cc: john
Subject: DAT based tape backup
Date: Mon, 08 Dec 97 09:46:48 +0000
From: "John Richards" <john>
X-Mts: smtp
Hello all,
I'm in a bit of a panic as our ancient TLZ04 appears to have just packed in. It
has been showing signs for some time but isnow failing so consistently as to be
useless.
I've just asked our local hardware supplier to quote me for a new drive and he
says that they all require software. Does this only apply if it is being used
on a PC based system or will I also need sw on my UNIX based one.
He has mentioned HP and Sony as the two possibles. Does anyone have experience
with these drives.
What is the difference between DDS-DC, DDS-2 and DDS-3? Is it simply the amount
of compression done?
I'm also searching the archives but any quick info would be most appreciated.
Bye
John
(Play Violin & Ride Bike - but not at the same time)
********************************************************************************
John Richards * email : john_at_zyqad.co.uk
Zyqad Ltd, *
Suite 25, The Business Park, *
Technology Drive, Beeston * tel : +44 115 922 0820
NOTTINGHAM. NG9 2ND. * fax : +44 115 967 8374
********************************************************************************
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From: Richard Rogers <R.M.Rogers_at_staffs.ac.uk>
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To: John Richards <john_at_zyqad.co.uk>
Subject: Re: DAT based tape backup
In-Reply-To: <9712080946.AA21323_at_zyqad.co.uk>
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On Mon, 08 Dec 1997 09:46:48 +0000 John Richards <john_at_zyqad.co.uk>
wrote:
> I've just asked our local hardware supplier to quote me for a new drive and he
> says that they all require software. Does this only apply if it is being used
> on a PC based system or will I also need sw on my UNIX based one.
I've never added extra software to drive a DAT unit on DU (any
version).
> He has mentioned HP and Sony as the two possibles. Does anyone have experience
> with these drives.
We have a number of DATs with HP mechanisms. I can't say I'm
overwhelmed by their reliability; it doesn't seem rare that one or
more are out of action (that may be the subjective result of a
particularly bad cluster of failures a few months back!). Whether
other brands are any better or worse I don't know.
> What is the difference between DDS-DC, DDS-2 and DDS-3? Is it simply the amount
> of compression done?
I think it has to do with the information density on the tape - if
you want to use a DDS-2 drive to its full capacity, you will need a
DDS-2 tape. The drives normally auto-sense the type of tape you've
put in them.
Richard
-----------------------------------
Richard Rogers
Information Technology Services
Staffordshire University
Tel: 01785 (+44 1785) 353395
E-mail: R.M.Rogers_at_staffs.ac.uk
...Who knows where the time goes?...
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From: George Guethlein <GGuethlein_at_GiantOfMaryland.com>
To: john_at_zyqad.co.uk
Subject: DAT based tape backup -Reply
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John, I use TLZ07 (DAT) and TZ87 & TZ88 (DLT) drives (ALL
StorageWorks equipment) on my AlphaServer systems (2100,
4100's & 8400), which run DU from 3.2C to 4.0B. I have never
had to install any software to make the standard backup utilities
work (tar, cpio, vdump, vrestore, etc.). I believe that when the
system recognizes the device and you rebuild the kernel (from
"/genvmunix") the code gets built into "/vmunix".
Is it possible that your supplier is quoting you a NON-certified
DEC tape drive (other than the HP & SONY) ?
I'm not sure what the DDS-??? compression formats are. But, I
have encountered cases where data compression has to be
invoked via the command line (ie. "vdump -C ..." to compress).
Hope this helps.
George Guethlein
Lead Tech Systems Admin
Giant Food, Inc.
Landover, Maryland USA
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Subject: RE; DAT based tape backup
To: john_at_zyqad.co.uk
Message-Id: <971208111950.2659_at_mserv.sri.bbsrc.ac.uk.0>
X-Dmw-Body-Names: RE; DAT based tape backup
Date: Mon, 8 Dec 97 11:19:50 +0000
X-Mailer: MailWorks 2.0-4
- ->Hello all,
- ->
- ->I'm in a bit of a panic as our ancient TLZ04 appears to have just packed in.
It
- ->has been showing signs for some time but isnow failing so consistently as to
be
- ->useless.
I assume you clean the drive regularly :-)
- ->I've just asked our local hardware supplier to quote me for a new drive and
he
- ->says that they all require software. Does this only apply if it is being
used
- ->on a PC based system or will I also need sw on my UNIX based one.
The situation for tape drives on PCs and UNIX is very different. In both cases
drivers
are needed, on PCs the is usually a piece of software, on UNIX it can just be
some
additions to a text file and a kernel rebuild (no sw to buy).
- ->He has mentioned HP and Sony as the two possibles. Does anyone have
experience
- ->with these drives.
- ->What is the difference between DDS-DC, DDS-2 and DDS-3? Is it simply the
amount
- ->of compression done?
I have recently purchased an HP DDS-3 drive which is available in a 'UNIX'
variant (as far as I can tell the only difference is that it is supplied with a
UNIX installation guide!). Installation on Alpha is a case of adding some lines
to a file (all in the manual), rebuilding the kernel and making device files
(MAKEDEV). As regards DDS types they are different. From recollection DDS-3
uses 125m tapes, I have never used DDS-2 so I am not sure there and DDS-1 uses
60m or 90m. The tape material itself is also different between types. Raw
capacities are approx. DDS-1 = 2GB, DDS-2 = 4GB (I think) and DDS-3 = 12GB.
Most drives will quote double this as compressed.
Simon Reavell
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From: "Sean O'Connell" <sean_at_stat.Duke.EDU>
To: John Richards <john_at_zyqad.co.uk>
Subject: Re: DAT based tape backup
In-Reply-To: <9712080946.AA21323_at_zyqad.co.uk>
References: <9712080946.AA21323_at_zyqad.co.uk>
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On 8 December 1997, John Richards wrote:
It is actually the length of the tape (and the cost). DDS-3 tapes
are 12/24 GB (native/theoretical compressed) on 125M 4mm tapes. The
media is pricey, but it is not in the range of DLT or Sony AIT. I
just bought an HP Superstore24-EU (E= external U = unix). It comes with
surprisingly helpfuly documentation _AND_ support of Digital Unix.
Following their (not entirely accurate but still useful instructions),
I had it up and running a DU 4.0x machine in short order. They also
handle the DU 3.2x case. It comes with power cord, cleaning tape, 1
tape, and a Wide to narrow SCSI cable. The drive itself was roughly
US $1400.00 (not bad). DDS-2 4/8 on 120M tapes (I think that is it).
Note that the DDS-3's can read DDS-2 and DDS tapes as well (double
bonus).
Good Luck.
S
PS. the HPs have a 3 yr warranty on them.
--
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
Sean O'Connell Email: sean_at_stat.Duke.EDU
Institute of Statistics and Decision Sciences Phone: (919) 684-5419
Duke University Fax: (919) 684-8594
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Date: Mon, 8 Dec 1997 08:50:54 -0600 (CST)
From: Larry Tague <ltague_at_physio1.utmem.edu>
To: John Richards <john_at_zyqad.co.uk>
Subject: Re: DAT based tape backup
In-Reply-To: <9712080946.AA21323_at_zyqad.co.uk>
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John,
I also have a TLZ04 that packed it in. I was told by DEC that they no
longer make or service this device. This I had trouble understanding. I
thought that they must maintain service on hardware for a certain number
of years?? I then asked if anyone else might be able to repair it and the
answer was no. I have had this same problem now with two different backup
devices. The tape device mentioned above and a magneto-optical device.
Please summarize the information that you obtain regarding this query to
the list. A lot of people are now finding themselves in this situation.
We need to be able to read our old tapes, etc.
Larry
Larry Tague
Co-Director of MECCA*
Research Associate Dept. of Physiology & Biophysics
Phone Bus.: 901-448-7152 U.T. Memphis
Phone FAX: 901-448-7126 894 Union Ave.
e-mail:ltague_at_physio1.utmem.edu or Memphis, TN 38163
ltague_at_mecca.mecca.org
*MECCA (Memphis Educational Computer Connectivity Alliance)
URL: http://www.mecca.org/
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To: john_at_zyqad.co.uk
Subject: Re: DAT based tape backup
This is probably true of most UNIX systems, and certainly true
of Digital UNIX that the base system's SCSI tape driver will
tend to work with any SCSI-2 compliant tape you can connect.
The driver may need some customization, but this is usually
done with changes to a text configuration file or source file.
You avoid such problems all together by using a supported tape
drive.
One of the differences I've observed between the DDS-2 and
DDS-3 that we sell is that the DDS-2 uses 120 meter tapes
where the DDS-3 supports 125 meter tapes. The new drives
are also faster. The higher capacities could simply be the
result of high on-tape density and the longer tape.
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From: "MELTON, Walt" <wmelton_at_shl.com>
To: "'John Richards'" <john_at_zyqad.co.uk>
Subject: RE: DAT based tape backup
Date: Mon, 8 Dec 1997 08:31:25 -0800
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John, I have worked with the HP line of DATs and numerous Alpha
systems (3000s, 200s and 255s). None of the OSes we were
using (1.3, 3.2c, 4.0b) required any special software. Just be sure and
get the dip switches on the DAT correct and it'll be fine.
Walt
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Date: Mon, 8 Dec 1997 9:10:46 -0800
From: System Prestidigitator <BOLSON_at_frango.hs.washington.edu>
To: john_at_zyqad.co.uk
Cc: BOLSON_at_frango.hs.washington.edu
Message-Id: <971208091046.40400ac6_at_frango.hs.washington.edu>
Subject: RE: DAT based tape backup
We have used "generic" DAT drives on several DEC workstations, both DUnix and
VMS. They work just fine as replacements for TLZ* drives, although there is
usually some recognition by name of DEC drives.
DDS-DC is the hardware based compression (essentially LZW) used as a standard
method to get approximately 2x compression.
DDS-2 is a higher density tape/drive combination that uses special 120 meter
tapes to hold 4 GB uncompressed, versus about 2 GB for DDS-1 on 90 meter tapes.
DDS-3 is still higher density, using special 125 meter tapes and claiming 12 GB
uncompressed per tape.
The DDS-3 drives can handle DDS-2 and DDS-1 and compression is usually standard.
We've used Sony, HP, and Wangdat drives successfully.
On Unix machines, the software is just the SCSI tape software.
Ed
Ed Bolson University of Washington Cardiac Imaging Lab (206)543-4535
bolson_at_u.washington.edu http://weber.u.washington.edu/~bolson
Box 356422, Room RR 616 Health Science Building, Seattle, WA, 98195-6422
Received on Tue Jan 06 1998 - 10:46:53 NZDT