SUMMARY: S-Plus

From: Cyndi Smith <cyn_at_odin.mdacc.tmc.edu>
Date: Tue, 01 Feb 2000 16:55:34 -0600 (CST)

Thanks to you all. I got some very interesting responses to my posting
(below). It seems that we are not the only installation being affected
by this move by MathSoft (the company that makes S-plus).

A couple of people recommended checking out "R" -- a freeware clone of
S (and S-Plus). Several others said that they plan to contact MathSoft
and/or Compaq about this issue and add their voices to the chorus
requesting that development of this product on this platform continue.
A couple made the point that people who are impacted by this and would
like to see MathSoft change their position not only contact MathSoft,
but also contact Compaq and/or their VAR for their Alpha machine(s).

Below is my original posting and an (edited) collection of the responses.

As further information, the word we got from MathSoft is that the reason
for dropping Tru64 (and AIX) development is not the cost of development
itself, but the cost of QA ... Why don't they just act like Microsoft and
let the users handle QA <grin>?

Thanks again for all the input.

Cyndi
-- 
-Cyndi Smith			     Programmer Analyst III, Biomathematics
-cyn_at_odin.mdacc.tmc.edu		M.D. Anderson Cancer Center, Houston, Texas
-phone: (713) 794-4938					fax: (713) 792-4262
			<http://odin.mdacc.tmc.edu/~cyn>
---------- Original Post to Tru64-Unix-Managers ------------
Is there anyone else on this list who has S-Plus from MathSoft installed
on an Alpha system?  We have been told that MathSoft is discontinuing 
support for Tru64 systems but that if "enough" people complained, they
would rethink the decision.  We rely on S-Plus and it would be a great
problem if it was no longer available.  We would likely have to buy 
new hardware -- just for that program!
Thanks for any feedback you may have.
----------- Responses ------------
From: JohnZiomek <jziomek_at_thehartford.com>
Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2000 17:03:00 -0500
We use it here along with SAS. I believe we just received a new version of it as well ( but who knows how new 'new' is?)   Anyways, we have not heard of any discontinuence..
John
-----------------------------------
Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2000 17:24:49 -0500 (EST)
From: Stan Horwitz <stan_at_astro.ocis.temple.edu>
We used to use it a while ago. I suggest you contact MathSoft again and
ask them if you can get a list of their S-Plus users who have it installed
under Tru64 Unix. They might just comply with your request.
------------------------------------
Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2000 17:31:27 -0500
From: John Speakman <speakman_at_biost.mskcc.org>
we use s-plus and got the letter about it being discontinued
but it didn't say they might rethink the decision if we complained!
we certainly will complain if you think it makes a difference -
please let me know
john speakman, mskcc, nyc
Date: Tue, 01 Feb 2000 10:10:52 -0500
Cyndi wrote: 
> My Chairman called Jim Walter (who signed the letter) and he told
> him that IF there was "enough" demand, they might reconsider -- so
> I think it is worth trying!
> Please, do write or call about it -- the more voices the better.
Good idea - I'll pass it on to the chairman so he can make a fuss.
I'll let you know what they say.
John
------------------------------------
From: Grant Ward <gaward_at_cssip.edu.au>
Date: Tue, 1 Feb 2000 09:12:45 +1030 (CST)
We have a very old splus installation here, but I don't know if it's
used much anymore.  I'm not sure that we'd be a good "voice" for your
cause, but at least you have a name of another site.
We never had a support contract either.  From your wording, I gather
that you do, and that the lack of this would be an issue for you.
Cheers, Grant.
Date: Tue, 1 Feb 2000 09:27:54 +1030 (CST)
Cyndi wrote:
> If you think you MIGHT be able to drum up interest in buying a new
> version if they continue to develop on this platform, it might 
> help if you (or someone in your organization who is likely to use
> it) would write or call MathSoft in support of this product on this
> platform.
I can mention it to some people around here, but I won't hold my breath though.
> It is not so much the support as the continued development.  They have
> said that they will continue to support the old versions as long as
> we continue to pay license fees, but we count on continued development.
Ahh, slight difference.  For your record, our ancient license is for
version 3.2 from back in the days of DEC OSF/1 2.0.  I imagine there's
been a few new versions since then along with new/improved features
they bring.
> Thanks for your input!
No problem.  I know what it's like trying to get vendors to support
our platform so I thought I should at least tell you our situation in
case it was useful.
Cheers, Grant.
 
Grant Ward ( Grant.Ward_at_cssip.edu.au )
Ph:  +61 8 8302 3927  Mobile: +61 414 727 747
Fax: +61 8 8302 3124  Pager:  61414727747_at_sms.on.net
------------------------------------
Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2000 15:10:27 -0800
From: "system PRIVILEGED account- John F. Marten" <root_at_tigger.oslc.org>
we run splus here. all our high end analysts use it. AS 1000A 5/333
Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2000 16:02:46 -0800
i did not recieve any letters from splus. if you could fax me a copy
of the letter you recieved i would sincerely appreciate it. thanx!
my fax # is 541-485-7087
 John F. Marten III /  Unix Systems Administrator
 Oregon Social Learning Center
 206 E. 4th St. /  Eugene, Oregon 97455
 
Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2000 16:55:42 -0800
Cyndi, thanx i got it. i will give it to the Scientific Advisory Board who will
most likely meet with the Software Committee. I will let you know the outcome,
it should be a few days, though. thank you-thank you-thank you for 
bringing this to my/our attention. johnm
------------------------------------
Date: Tue, 1 Feb 2000 10:09:38 +0800
From: Bevan Broun <bevanb_at_ee.uwa.edu.au>
I havent used s-plus but I know that there is a free clone called R.
See
http://www.freshmeat.net/appindex/x11/scientific%20applications.html
and
http://www.r-project.org/
-- 
Bevan Broun                                           ph (08) 9380 1587
Computer Systems Officer                             fax (08) 9380 1065
Dept. Electrical and Electronic Engineering      
University of Western Australia                                 rm. G70
------------------------------------
Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2000 21:43:27 -0500
From: "Sean O'Connell" <sean_at_stat.Duke.EDU>
We are in the same boat.  The alpha is currently our primary
computational platform.  Our faculty is currently going to use
a customer survey that our site license contact (who also manages
several alphas deploying splus) forwarded to us as avenue to voice 
our desire to have support for the alpha platform continued.
I could forward this survey to you if have not already received it.
-------
Sean O'Connell                                Email: sean_at_stat.Duke.EDU
Institute of Statistics and Decision Sciences Phone: (919) 684-5419
Duke University                               Fax:   (919) 684-8594
Date: Tue, 1 Feb 2000 12:38:12 -0500
Cyndi Smith stated:
> Sean O'Connell wrote:
> >We are in the same boat.  The alpha is currently our primary
> >computational platform.  Our faculty is currently going to use
> >a customer survey that our site license contact (who also manages
> >several alphas deploying splus) forwarded to us as avenue to voice 
> >our desire to have support for the alpha platform continued.
> Yes, we got the survey, and yes, the Development Director (Jim Walter)
> who sent the letter said he would be privy to the results of the
> survey (which we also have already responded to), however, he also 
> said that direct feedback to his office would be listened to so I
> recommend contacting him if this discontinuance is a problem for you.
> If you need a copy of the letter, I can FAX it to you.
The funny thing about the letter (which was forwarded to me by
Bob Jackson, who probably will respond to this email too) was
that it lacked any sort of contact information for Jim Walter.
Do have any info in this regard?  So that I may forward this
to concerned faculty members.
Thank you for bringing this up.
S
------------------------------------
Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2000 21:07:03 -0800
To: Cyndi Smith <cyn_at_odin.mdacc.tmc.edu>
Just wanted to let you know...there are a group of us working to drive 
this msg home with Compaq. Your email couldn't have been more timely.
Regards
Michael
******************************************************************
Systems Performance Consultants
Michael Huntingdon
Higher Education Technology
131-A Stony Circle, Suite 500			(707) 545-0948
Santa Rosa, CA 95401			   	fax (707) 577-7419
Date: Tue, 01 Feb 2000 10:01:33 -0800
It's also important for those folks to contact their VAR or Compaq sales
person. In most cases, ISV's like MathSoft rely on some percentage of
marketing funds from companies like Compaq, HP, and IBM. It takes emails
and interest like yours to convince companies like Compaq that it's in
their best interest to make the financial investment. I'll keep you posted
on results from this end.
Regards
Michael
------------------------------------
Date: Tue, 1 Feb 2000 07:54:57 +0100 (MET)
From: Niels Kokholm <kokholm_at_math.ku.dk>
Yes, we (University of Copenhagen, Institute for Mathematical Sciences) 
have a floating network license for 16 users on DU. Where do we complain?
   Niels Joergen Kokholm         | email:   kokholm_at_math.ku.dk
   Institut for Matematiske Fag  | phone:   +45 3532 0759/+45 2128 6932
   Universitetsparken 5          | fax:     +45 3532 0704
   DK-2100 Kobenhavn OE, Denmark | www:     http://www.math.ku.dk/~kokholm
------------------------------------
From: <Allan.Simeone_at_aventis.com>
Date: Tue, 1 Feb 2000 09:29:52 -0500 
We run S-Plus.  the users here decided to move over to a
program called "R".  Supposedly it is better than S-plus.
Allan
------------------------------------
Date: Tue, 1 Feb 2000 12:25:07 -0500 (EST)
From: Bob Jackson <bobj_at_soc.duke.edu>
   S-Plus under Tru64 UNIX is used here at Duke at several sites. For at
least one of these sites, it is the major commericial application in use.  
MathSoft has also announced discontinued support for AIX.
   My guess is that the decision rests mostly what they estimate to be the
cost/benefits of porting to version 5.0 for Tru64.  Ultimately they need
to be able to cover their development and support costs. Sometimes it
helps I believe if the hardware vendor is willing to provide a development
machine and OS support at no or low cost.  I don't know what their
relationship with Compaq is, but Compaq should have some interest in the
continued availability of S-Plus. I certainly think it needs to be
stressed that, by terminating development on Alpha boxes, they are giving
up the premier floating point platform.
   Below is a solicitation that I recently received from MathSoft for
customer feedback.  It might be helpful in framing your response, because
it indicates the types of things in which they are interested.
   We have S-Plus in our shop, but it is not heavily used.  
     -- Bob
-- (Survey attached -- not included here) --
+-[Bob Jackson]------------[Email: bobj_at_soc.duke.edu] ---------------------+
|            Phone: (919) 660-5601            Fax: (919) 660-5623          |
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+--------------------------------------------------------------------------+
------------------------------------
Date: Tue, 01 Feb 2000 14:55:22 -0500
From: Jim R Jones <Jim.R.Jones_at_Cummins.com>
I would send this info to your Compaq sales person, and/or local unix support
person.  I have done this and gotten positive results in the past.  The bottom
line is that it effects sales and Compaq will sometimes go talk to the vendor.
jim jones
------------------------------------
From: Torben Leifsen <torben.leifsen_at_astro.uio.no>
Date: Tue, 1 Feb 2000 23:45:35 +0100
Hi,
I have a response from one of my users to your question regarding S-Plus.
For some reasom he did not manage to send it himself, so I forward it to
you below.
Regards,
Torben Leifsen
Institute of Theoretical Astrophysics
University of Oslo
Norway
Response from Kjetil Kjernsmo:
I got the message forwarded from our sysadm.
>Is there anyone else on this list who has S-Plus from MathSoft installed
>on an Alpha system?  We have been told that MathSoft is discontinuing 
>support for Tru64 systems but that if "enough" people complained, they
>would rethink the decision.  We rely on S-Plus and it would be a great
>problem if it was no longer available.  We would likely have to buy 
>new hardware -- just for that program!
You might want to migrate to R. It is greatly inspired by S-plus, but is
Open Source, so that you can compile and optimize it yourself. There are
quite a number of libraries that aren't available for R, but I hear they
are mostly easily portable. I suggest that you just answer by dropping
Mathsoft... :-)
See <URL:http://www.r-project.org/>.
Best,
Kjetil
-- 
Kjetil Kjernsmo
Graduate astronomy-student                    Problems worthy of attack
University of Oslo, Norway            Prove their worth by hitting back
E-mail: kjetikj_at_astro.uio.no                                - Piet Hein
Homepage <URL:http://www.astro.uio.no/~kjetikj/>
Webmaster_at_skepsis.no 
Received on Tue Feb 01 2000 - 23:00:32 NZDT

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