John,
You are correct the 300 million is the cost to devlop the chip per year.
see link to news story:
http://dailynews.yahoo.com/h/zd/20010627/tc/alpha_proved_costly_for_compaq_
1.html
And you were also correct that the EV7 is do out in 2002/2003 time frame.
But as you stated I dont see much of an upgrade path to the GS160 but to go
with a GS320 and then another new server but
by then it should be all IA-64 boxes. But I can't seem to find anything
that states Compaq will support Alpha's beyond 2004.
thanks
Vince
---------------------- Forwarded by Vincent D'Antonio/BISYS_BPS on
06/27/2001 04:27 PM ---------------------------
"Harvey, John F" <John.F.Harvey_at_COMPAQ.com> on 06/27/2001 03:25:48 PM
To: Vincent D'Antonio/BISYS_BPS
cc:
Subject: RE: Compaq/Intel agreement... postings on this list
-----Original Message-----
From: vdantonio_at_BISYS-Plans.com [ mailto:vdantonio_at_BISYS-Plans.com
<mailto:vdantonio_at_BISYS-Plans.com> ]
Sent: Wednesday, June 27, 2001 2:53 PM
To: tru64-unix-managers_at_ornl.gov
Subject: Compaq/Intel agreement... postings on this list
Paul,
just my two cents, but it looks like Compaq has said that it is losing
about 300 million per year on alpha and need to cut operating expense so
Compaq is off loading a losing product to Intel. I see that and again
through things I have read that alpha will be supported till the end of
2003, because the porting of the OS's should be done and ready for release
by 2004?
Compaq is not loosing money on Alpha. Alpha sales in both VMS and Unix were
up dramatically last year. There is no change for any existing plan for
existing and next generation systems. EV7 will require new systems. There
will be multiple speedups of the existing EV68 systems using the EV68 chip
set. The current ES/DS and GS systems have never been destined to run the
EV7 chip systems. The new systems that are planned for next year using the
EV7 architecture are still planned and will probably go through multiple
iterations of EV7 chips with varying speeds.
Compaq is only working on EV7 alpha chip and has haulted the dev. of EV8,
but and I am be misreading this the EV7 would be on a new alpha serverthat
would be coming in late 2003 early 2004, would that same chip work in older
boxes such as the GS160? if yes at what cost, do we need a new backplane,
or new QBB's?
The EV7 is due for late next year (late 2002) and is still being developed
by Compaq employed Engineers and is unaffected by this agreement.
As I have read it, and please correct me if I am wrong starting in 2004
everything will be on IA-64 hardware with the Itanium chip, what will
happen to the alpha servers at this time?
New systems after ~2.5 years (late 2003/early 2004) will be based on the
next generation Itanium (or maybe one after next) that will be developed
using engineers who up to this time have been working on the EV8 chip (as
well as existing Intel engineers). Existing Alpha Servers much like
existing
VAX servers will be supported and upgraded for many years to come.
At what point will you no longer
be able to get upgrades or support for current systems? I have read that
Compaq will support the alpha's through 2003 what happens after that?
One statement that I saw said that they would be supported through 2012.
Tru64 Unix and OpenVMS will be ported to the Itanium architecture with full
source code compatibility.
This is all my opinion only and should not be construed as Compaq Official
John F. Harvey
SE
These are some things I see.
thanks
Vince
Paul Henderson <Paul.G.Henderson_at_compaq.com> on 06/27/2001 02:02:58 PM
To: tru64-unix-managers_at_ornl.gov
cc: (bcc: Vincent D'Antonio/BISYS_BPS)
Subject: Compaq/Intel agreement... postings on this list
There have been some interesting postings on this list regarding the
Compaq/Intel agreement. I'm sure there are many different opinions about
the
agreement, but I would like to share mine.
Back in 1993, I attended UNIX Expo in New York City. It was like a college
reunion. The UNIX community was a small close knit group back then, and it
seemed like I recognized everyone there. The DEC booth was showcasing a DEC
3000 with its new Alpha chip running OSF/1. The performance was
enthralling... I was so impressed, I joined DEC soon after, working on
OSF/1.
Since then the Alpha chip has retained the performance lead. It's quite an
achievement for one chip to maintain a lead for so many years.
But Compaq had to naturally ask "will Alpha retain its lead, and for how
long?". An exhaustive study was done by Engineering (not the bean
counters),
and it was determined that by 2004, Alpha's performance would not be
dramatically different from the Itanium chip from Intel. (Note that unlike
other companies, Compaq did this study several years before our chip ran
out
of steam).
So Compaq said to Intel "we have the chip expertise, the compiler
wizards...
we've been doing 64 bit for more than 10 years now... let's partner and
make
the Itanium a performance leader".
Why Intel? Note that Intel has been making the Alpha chip since DEC settled
with Intel for Alpha patent infringements in the Pentium III. The
Alpha plant in Hudson, MA was bought by Intel in the terms of that
settlement.
(Samsung also produces Alpha in its foundries).
Thus it was a natural decision for Compaq and Intel to partner. The result
will be an "Alpha-bitized" Itanium that will incorporate the best from both
Alpha and Itanium.
For the customer, the term I've heard is that this is an "engine swap". I
don't know all the details yet, but binary compatibility is a goal, with
source code recompile the minimum acceptable migration path.
The result? Tru64UNIX will be on a more mainstream chip (Alpha was always
considered a beautiful design, but still not mainstream). Software
developers will port to Tru64UNIX/Itanium at the same time they do their
Solaris/ancient Sparc and AIX/PowerIV ports, and thus application
availability (which IMHO was the reason Alpha suffered) will no longer be
an
issue. And since, IHMO, Compaq provides the best OS (Tru64UNIX), the best
clustering (TruCluster), the most reliable systems, everything should turn
out fine.
There are a lot of emotions tied up in this announcement, and a lot of soul
searching is going on within the Tru64UNIX group. I don't think it is too
presumptuous for me to say that we all appreciate your support of Tru64UNIX
both now and in the future.
Regards,
Paul
--
Paul Henderson
Tru64 UNIX Engineering, Compaq Computer Corporation
mail: Paul.G.Henderson_at_compaq.com || 200 Rt 9, Manalapan, NJ 07726
-----Original Message-----
From: vdantonio@BISYS-Plans.com
[mailto:vdantonio@BISYS-Plans.com]
Sent:
Wednesday, June 27, 2001 2:53 PM
To: tru64-unix-managers@ornl.gov
Subject:
Compaq/Intel agreement... postings on this list
Paul,
just my two
cents, but it looks like Compaq has said that it is losing
about 300 million
per year on alpha and need to cut operating expense so
Compaq is off loading
a losing product to Intel. I see that and again
through things I have
read that alpha will be supported till the end of
2003, because the porting
of the OS's should be done and ready for release
by 2004?
Compaq is not loosing money on Alpha. Alpha sales in both VMS and
Unix were up dramatically last year. There is no
change for any existing plan for existing and next generation systems. EV7 will
require new systems. There will be multiple speedups of the existing EV68
systems using the EV68 chip set. The current ES/DS and GS systems have never
been destined to run the EV7 chip systems. The new systems that are planned for
next year using the EV7 architecture are still planned and will probably go
through multiple iterations of EV7 chips with varying
speeds.
Compaq is only working on EV7 alpha chip and has haulted
the dev. of EV8,
but and I am be misreading this the EV7 would be on a new
alpha serverthat
would be coming in late 2003 early 2004, would that same
chip work in older
boxes such as the GS160? if yes at what cost, do we
need a new backplane,
or new QBB's?
The EV7 is due for late next year
(late 2002) and is still being developed by Compaq employed Engineers and is
unaffected by this agreement.
As I have read it, and please correct me if I am wrong
starting in 2004
everything will be on IA-64 hardware with the Itanium chip,
what will
happen to the alpha servers at this time?
New systems after ~2.5 years (late
2003/early 2004) will be based on the next generation Itanium (or maybe one
after next) that will be developed using engineers who up to this time have been
working on the EV8 chip (as well as existing Intel engineers). Existing Alpha
Servers much like existing VAX servers will be supported and upgraded for
many years to come.
At what point will you no longer
be able to get upgrades or
support for current systems? I have read that
Compaq will support the
alpha's through 2003 what happens after that?
One statement that I saw said that
they would be supported through 2012.
Tru64 Unix and OpenVMS will be ported to the
Itanium architecture with full source code
compatibility.
This is all my opinion only and should
not be construed as Compaq Official
John F. Harvey
SE
These are some things I
see.
thanks
Vince
Paul Henderson
<Paul.G.Henderson_at_compaq.com> on 06/27/2001 02:02:58
PM
To: tru64-unix-managers@ornl.gov
cc:
(bcc: Vincent D'Antonio/BISYS_BPS)
Subject: Compaq/Intel agreement...
postings on this list
There have been some interesting
postings on this list regarding the
Compaq/Intel agreement. I'm sure there
are many different opinions about
the
agreement, but I would like to share
mine.
Back in 1993, I attended UNIX Expo in New York City. It was like a
college
reunion. The UNIX community was a small close knit group back then,
and it
seemed like I recognized everyone there. The DEC booth was showcasing
a DEC
3000 with its new Alpha chip running OSF/1. The performance
was
enthralling... I was so impressed, I joined DEC soon after, working
on
OSF/1.
Since then the Alpha chip has retained the performance lead.
It's quite an
achievement for one chip to maintain a lead for so many
years.
But Compaq had to naturally ask "will Alpha retain its lead, and for
how
long?". An exhaustive study was done by Engineering (not the
bean
counters),
and it was determined that by 2004, Alpha's performance
would not be
dramatically different from the Itanium chip from Intel. (Note
that unlike
other companies, Compaq did this study several years before our
chip ran
out
of steam).
So Compaq said to Intel "we have the chip
expertise, the compiler
wizards...
we've been doing 64 bit for more than
10 years now... let's partner and
make
the Itanium a performance
leader".
Why Intel? Note that Intel has been making the Alpha chip since DEC
settled
with Intel for Alpha patent infringements in the Pentium III.
The
Alpha plant in Hudson, MA was bought by Intel in the terms of
that
settlement.
(Samsung also produces Alpha in its foundries).
Thus
it was a natural decision for Compaq and Intel to partner. The result
will be
an "Alpha-bitized" Itanium that will incorporate the best from both
Alpha and
Itanium.
For the customer, the term I've heard is that this is an "engine
swap". I
don't know all the details yet, but binary compatibility is a goal,
with
source code recompile the minimum acceptable migration path.
The
result? Tru64UNIX will be on a more mainstream chip (Alpha was
always
considered a beautiful design, but still not mainstream).
Software
developers will port to Tru64UNIX/Itanium at the same time they do
their
Solaris/ancient Sparc and AIX/PowerIV ports, and thus
application
availability (which IMHO was the reason Alpha suffered) will no
longer be
an
issue. And since, IHMO, Compaq provides the best OS
(Tru64UNIX), the best
clustering (TruCluster), the most reliable systems,
everything should turn
out fine.
There are a lot of emotions tied up in
this announcement, and a lot of soul
searching is going on within the
Tru64UNIX group. I don't think it is too
presumptuous for me to say that we
all appreciate your support of Tru64UNIX
both now and in the
future.
Regards,
Paul
--
Paul Henderson
Tru64 UNIX Engineering,
Compaq Computer Corporation
mail: Paul.G.Henderson@compaq.com || 200 Rt 9,
Manalapan, NJ 07726
Received on Wed Jun 27 2001 - 20:33:08 NZST